Help with DVD-A/SACD combo players (1 Viewer)

[PomingF]

Just got my Sony preamp today and now all I need is to rearrange the rack before messing with the equipment & wires/cables.

While browsing through the manuals I came across page 44 of the Pioneer's saying the front speakers have to be set to 'large' while the center & surrounds can be set to 'large', 'small' or 'no'. On the same page there is OSD showing speaker distance settings as well. But then there is a separate paragraph saying when playing DVD-audio the center & surround speakers will be automatically set to 'large'.

Give me more time to go through the whole thing and hopefully more to report back.

PF

 

[Mark Norman]

jaleelk,
I will be using the Denon 5700 so I only have one 5.1 input.
I completely agree with waht you are saying, especially the limited software.
I went to Best Buy today and was amazed they only had 3 SACD multichannel discs and about 10 DVD-A discs. And...the SACD MC discs were $32!!!!
I swear the format are trying to kill themselves.
As far as bass mgnt, I have a dedicated room with 5 full range speakers, but that fact that this is a well know deficency and Pioneer choose to do nothing about it really burns my A$$!
PF-let me know what your assessment is of the Pioneer DV-47A

 

[PomingF]

Mark, I will as soon as I get mine up & running. Looks like it will be an exciting weekend.
As for your comment on software. I got to use a 10% coupon for some SACD/DVD-A software @ BB not too long ago & their selection is very limited. I just placed an order of 8 from amusicdirect.com again with a 10% coupon. You can try go to their website, place the order and input on the comment column about a 10% off Spring Sale using coupon code SP10 to see if one of their CS agent will get back to you with the adjusted total. Their Sony SACD's are priced @ $17.99 & DVD-A is $22.99. S&H is first three for $5 then each addition $.50 more, I think.
Btw, I made this offer on this and another forum before as I have made a duplicated purchase of Jeff Beck's Blow by Blow MC SACD hence stuck with an UN-opened one and is willing to give it up for &18 shipped or $16 picked-up.
PF

 

[Phil A]

I had an opportunity to compare the video performance of the DV-47A vs. the Rotel 1066 on a Sharp 9000 front projector and a Grayhawk 110 inch inch screen. Compared it in both interlaced component and progressive scan component. The picture on the DV-47A was a drop softer than the Rotel which was a plus in some instances. It helds it own nicely. The Proceed PMDT was obviously better than either. I also compared 2-channel SACD performance on the DV-47A vs. a Marantz SA-14 via a Bryston analog preamp, a 4B-ST amp and Vienna Mozart speakers. The Marantz clearly was much better. I previously compared the Marantz to my Sony 9000ES and the Marantz was better. I felt the Sony was a drop better than the DV-47A on 2-channel SACD. The sound of the DV-47A was more laid back and not as detailed. It is still an excellent package for the money but clearly not necessarily as good as other things out there. The other major problem I have with the unit is that to change from the CD layer of a disc to the SACD layer requires going in to the menu vs. a button on the remote.

 

[David Judah]

If you are willing to wait and complain, like I'm doing and not purchase from these manufacturers until they get it right, you will be better off

I disagree. While you have been waiting and complaining, many of us have been enjoying the marked improvement these hi-rez formats offer. You gotta jump in sometime, otherwise you will always be waiting for something better to come along.

DJ

 

[KeithH]

Phil said:

The other major problem I have with the unit is that to change from the CD layer of a disc to the SACD layer requires going in to the menu vs. a button on the remote.

Yuck! That makes the SACD side of the player function more like DVD-Audio. Poor job on Pioneer's part there.

 

[TomK]

PomingF:

. . .waiting for the Sony TAP preaamp to arrive (probably tomorrow) so I can start setting things up.

If you don't mind me asking, where did you find the P9000es and at what price? I'm looking at adding it to my Lexicon setup. Email me if you prefer to not say here.

Thanks!

Tom

 

[PomingF]

Tom, hope you got my PM. If not let me know.

Just got the latest Stereophile with the recommended component lists. No surprise the Sony 777ES is an A+ while the Pioneer AX10 & the Sony 555ES are class A. Wonder how the 47A compares.

PF

 

[KeithH]

PomingF, I saw the current issues of Stereophile too. What I found interesting is that they no longer rate the Sony SCD-1 because they say it has been discontinued. That's the first I have heard of that.

By the way, I love seeing the 'C555ES as a Class A component. The high praise is absolutely deserved in my opinion.

 

[Paul.S]

Guys:
Mark Norman wrote:

Mark, have you been back to Best Buy in the intervening time since your post? Two different BBs in West L.A. near me have recently lowered their SACD prices to as 'cheap' as $16.99. I think it is a re-pricing done in conjunction with the SACD kiosks now in select BB and Circuit City stores.
On a more general note, I'm hoping most of your guys who posted herein two months ago are tracking this thread and will chime in on a question I have. Mark, I know you're most interested in high end combination players, but I'm curious about how long it will be before we start seeing modestly-priced combination/universal players. I'm interested in a machine that does it all: HDCD, progressive scan, DVD-V, DTS of course, DVD-A and SACD . . . for less than $700.
How long before that will happen do ya'll think--next year at this time?
Cheers,
Paul

 

[KeithH]

Paul, no one can predict what the manufacturers will bring us, but I hope to see the type of player you described for under $1000 by next year. The Pioneer Elite DV-47A meets all of your criteria except for HDCD. Of course, it is more than $700 at authorized dealers, but not that much more.

Regarding the prices of SACDs, Best Buy stores in my area (New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Delaware) have had most single-disc, stereo SACDs for $16.99. The Top Gun SACD is $12.99, and Weather Report Heavy Weather was $11.99 for awhile. It's $16.99 now. Most single-disc multi-channel SACDs have been $18.99 from the get-go. The only Sony SACD I have seen for $32 or thereabouts at Best Buy is The Sopranos: Peppers & Eggs, which is a two-disc stereo release. It's $32.99.

 

[PomingF]

Paul, last I read the Pioneer can be had for just under $750. It does about everything you wanted except HDCD. In fact I have mine setup to where it virtually plays everything I put in it so far without having to touch the menu button. I think it even plays DVD-R & DVD-rW according to S&V.

PF

 

[KeithH]

PomingF, do you know of any authorized dealers that sell the '47A for $750 or less? The lowest price I have heard from an authorized dealer is $800 from J&R Music World.

 

[Rob Roth]

KeithH, others;

I picked up a 47A today. I was skeptical of this player and took a floor model home so that I could evaluate a broken in machine before making a final decision.

I cabled the six 5.1 outputs with Monster 950's going into a B&K 307. The cables are new. AC is via an aftermarket pc plugged into a PS Audio P300.

Initial impressions are mixed. On the positive I'm having a blast with the DVD-A performance. Not sure if this is a temporary infatuation, but I have about 20 disks (DTS, EMI, AIX) which I have enjoyed in DTS and DD 5.1 formats. Now I can enjoy the DVDA tracks of these same discs. What a treat!Q!!

So far I'm not as impressed with the SACD performance. I have the DVP 9000ES and several SACDs which also have mch SACD. The first I tried was the new Telarc 1812 Overture. The 47A gave some good ambience and the extreme bass (the patented Telarc drum and the cannon) were usefully diverted to the subwoofers eventhough I run my speakers as large. However, the soundstage was flat with poor placement and depth. Also missing was that pellucid quality I've come to associate with good SACD. Sure enough, the same disc's stereo SACD sounded much, much better on the 9000ES. Same results with the Roger Waters.

I am willing to suspend final judgement until the new cables fully breakin. I should also note that the Sony's output cables are Harmonic Technology- a much better cable than the 950s. Still, the DVDA sounds very good already.....

Tomorrow I'm going to take the day off and do some intensive comparisons between the 9000ES and the 47A on SACD and CD. Whatever those results, I am presently very favorably impressed with DVDA, and would like to retain the capability in my system. But that means using the only set of 5.1 inputs available and, possibly, missing out on good mch SACD. Of course I'll still have the 9000's stereo SACD capability but.....

 

[Doug_B]

Rob,

I am very interested in your impressions of the 47A. I just picked up the Sony '555ES, but I can return it if I choose. I would benefit from a combined player if for no other reason than title availability. Also, I did a bunch of auditioning with the 555ES in SACD mode, redbook mode, and also compared to my Ah! 4000 and even my lowly Pioneer DV-333 via analog outs. I was a bit surprised to find out that the difference between the Pioneer and the 2 other players was not that great. The quality of the recorded material played the biggest role in perceived quality across the board. What I don't know is whether the aforementioned "laid back and not as detailed" sound of the 47A in SACD mode will be evident on my system with ribbon speakers. This is where I noticed that the DV-333 came up short, sort of like a thinly veiled cover over the music compared to the other CDPs.

Doug

 

[KeithH]

Rob, as you probably know by now, one of the main complaints going around about the '47A aside from build quality is SACD performance. From that standpoint, I am not surprised by your opinion of SACD playback, especially seeing as you have an 'S9000ES. On the other hand, I am not surprised that you are blown away by DVD-Audio because your previous experience was with Dolby Digital and DTS, which both offer lower resolution than CD. Unless the '47A were a significantly better SACD player than the 'S9000ES, which I am sure it is not, I would expect you to come away less impressed with SACD on the '47A than DVD-Audio based on your previous experience.

 

[PomingF]

Keith, you're correct to the fact that the vender you & I have in mind with the lowest quote is not an authorized dealer but yet folks who dealt with them before has had no problem with warranty/exchange issue. Rob, as for the 47A vs 9000ES comparison you can also check out the review in the current issue of SGHT.

PF

 

[Lee Scoggins]

So far I'm not as impressed with the SACD performance. I have the DVP 9000ES and several SACDs which also have mch SACD. The first I tried was the new Telarc 1812 Overture. The 47A gave some good ambience and the extreme bass (the patented Telarc drum and the cannon) were usefully diverted to the subwoofers eventhough I run my speakers as large. However, the soundstage was flat with poor placement and depth. Also missing was that pellucid quality I've come to associate with good SACD. Sure enough, the same disc's stereo SACD sounded much, much better on the 9000ES. Same results with the Roger Waters.

Rob,
I agree here - this is what many audiophiles are saying about the Super Audio performance and more than a few are extra tweaked because some reviewers have used the 47a to compare the formats and guess what they picked? (not withstanding the impossibility of getting a level-matched DVDA and DSD of same music)

 

[Rob Roth]

Comparisons continuing, So far I have a good impression of the 47A's CD performance via the SPDIF. However, as I initially feared, the 47A must be menu set to "2ch" and the analog 2 channel outputs utilized to get analog output from CDs. This requires an additional pair of cables for a total of 8 (plus the video and digital coax cables).

I'll trot down to Tweeter soon and get this addt'l pair. I'm going through this trouble so that:

a.) I can compare the 47's CD performance as directly as possible with the 9000ES.

b.) I can determine what effects, if any, the 47's enhancement features (Legato and Hi Bit) have on the sound.

More later

 

[Mike Broadman]

Rob, is the 1812 Overture the only SACD you've listened to? I've read that that particular title isn't particularly great, so it may be the disc itself that you're not liking. I haven't heard that one, though, but I'm sure there are stronger classical SACDs, including the Mahler 2-disc and Mozart Sinfonia from Sony.

I have the 47-A and love it. I couldn't hear a real difference between that and the Sony 222ES, which I returned in order to get the 47-A. The menu thing for SACD doesn't bother me, since I've had to do that maybe only 3 times since I got it. For "SACD playback," you have can select multi-channel, stereo, or CD layer. If you put it in a disc that doesn't have the layer you selected, it then selects the next one on the list. I have it set on "multi-channel." Most of my SACDs are stereo, so the player knows to play the stereo SACD layer. If I pop in a M-Ch disc, it plays the M-Ch track. I don't really see the point of wanting to play the CD layer on that player when you have the SACD layer to listen to, so the only time I use that menu is to choose between M-Ch or stereo. So, instead of one button, it's like three buttons. Big deal.

The other thing I sacrificed by trading in the 222ES for the 47-A was the carousel, but I'm not missing that too much.

The convenience of having one player that does everything at such good quality more than makes up for these minor little things.

I also don't see a big issue with bass management. Do you really need your subwoofer to listen to music? It was really designed for movie effects anyway. Of course, having extra options is always nice, but again, not a stopper, IMO.