Help with DVD-A/SACD combo players (1 Viewer)

[Mark Norman]

I would like to buy a DVD-A/SACD combo player because my Denon 5700 only has one set of analog inputs. The only 2 players I am aware of is the Pioneer elite DV-47A and the Marantz. Does anyone have these players and what is your impression, and does anyone know of anymore out there. I want to stay with high end players only. I was told at my local dealer that the Denon 9000 will be a combo player and THX Ultra????

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[James David Walley]

I don't know about the Marantz -- so far, the only choices are the Apex 7701 (very buggy) and the Pioneer DV-47A. I just got the Pioneer and, so far, am very happy with it, not only for the SACD/DVD-A capabilities, but also the outstanding DVD-Video quality, and even the excellent sound quality from regular CDs (which are upsampled to 24/96 with this player).

From what I've heard, by the way, the Denon 9000 may not offer SACD, and will be in the multi-megabuck range.

 

[Mark Norman]

James,

I thought I read somewhere that the DV-47A did not utilize DSD therefore was inferior to most SACD players. Is this accurate? Also, does the dvd video have any chroma bug issues?

What can I expect to pay for the unit?

 

[Micahel C]

Mark,

Unlike the previous Pioneer units which converted the DSD stream to PCM for output, the DV-47A passes the DSD stream direct. As a matter of fact, it uses a Sony chip to do so. As far as SACD playback, I'm very happy with the sound. Redbook cd is good. DVD-Audio and DVD-Video is exceptional. I haven't seen the chroma bug at all, something that was very apparent on my two previous dvd players. Price range $800.00-$1000.00

As for the Marantz, word is that it will be out around June at a cost of $1800.00+, The Denon 9000 will not have SACD and if I remember correctly, price was around $3800.00.

 

[KeithH]

James David said:

and even the excellent sound quality from regular CDs (which are upsampled to 24/96 with this player).

Are you sure about the upsampling? I have not read anything before about the '47A upsampling. In fact, given the fact that 24/192 DACs are so common these days, one might have expected the '47A to upsample to 24/192, if it upsampled at all. Does the owner's manual say something about upsampling?

 

[James David Walley]

I'll have to double-check on that. Before purchasing the DV-47A, I read from some reasonably-reliable source that it upsampled CD output. I thought it was to 24/96 (since it will pass that signal through digital out), but it might have been to 24/192 for internal use. In any event, CDs sound very nice indeed via the analog outs on this player.

 

[Jake RMC]

The player does upsample, but the manual is unclear exactly what it is upsampling to. Two features, one called Legatto Pro and one called Hi-Bit, must be engaged for the player to upsample.

 

[JaleelK]

The real question is, how good is the bass management capabilties?

 

[KeithH]

James David and Jake,

Thanks for the info. I know that Pioneer's long-standing Legato Link technology does not upsample, but does some sort of processing. Maybe the '47A does altogether different. I might post a question over on Audio Asylum about this, as there has been quite a bit of discussion over there about the '47A since its release. Someone there might know more about this. If I do post a question there and learn anything, I'll pass on the information here.

Jaleel,

My understanding is that the '47A does not offer bass management for DVD-Audio or multi-channel SACD.

 

[Phil A]

There is no bass management.

 

[David Judah]

From the promotional materials we received, the unit upsamples using both Hi-bit(upsamples the word length to 24 bit)and Legatto Pro(didn't really spell it out but I assume it increases the sampling rate to 96kHz).

I compared its Red Book performance with the Sony 222ES & 555ES. I preferred the Sonys because frequencies in the treble range were sharper and more live sounding, while the Pioneer was smoother and warmer sounding(especially noticeable with cymbals), but it would boil down to a personal prefernce thing depending on which type of sound each person prefers.

SACD performance was very good as well, although some have said in other Forums they thought it was the weak point of the player. I disagree and think it is an all-around great performer.

DJ

 

[PomingF]

Guys, I am glad you all like the Pioneer's SACD performance for I have mine sitting in the box waiting for the Sony TAP preaamp to arrive (probably tomorrow) so I can start setting things up. For a while I was very close to going the separate players route and would have gone with the XA777ES plus may be the RP-91. I will also be watching out for Dan Wright's mod down the line.

Cheers.

PF

 

[Mark Norman]

I have the same delima, I am thinking of seperates(555es and Denon 4800) buthave got a fair price on the pioneer-$850 with no intrest financing for 1 year.

Howver, I also have the opportunity to pick up a 555es @$600.

I went to several stores this evening and could not find anyone that had a sacd multi channel disc that I could hear on the Pioneer.

The thought of a good combo player is great but I am concerned about overall quality of the tasks the player is to perform.

Any additional info would be great.

 

[KeithH]

Mark, I have yet to see a '47A at a store in my area, but I own a 'C555ES, and it is an excellent CD and SACD player. I can't recommend it highly enough. Is $600 for a brand new unit? I paid $800 for it back in October, which is still the going rate from discount mail-order dealers. At $600, it is a steal if it is a new unit. To put things in perspective, J&R Music World, an authorized discount mail-order dealer, sells the 'C222ES for $600. So, you would be doing very well with the 'C555ES at that price.

I don't know how the Denon '4800 performs, but I have seen it at Tweeter stores many times and am not impressed with the build quality. The carousel drawer is rather flimsy for a $1200 component. Just my opinion. If you go the separates route, you might be better off saving some money and getting the Panasonic DVD-RP91 instead of the Denon changer.

 

[PomingF]

Thanks Keith. As you can see all these forced spoon feeding of DVD/SACD player info over the past few weeks seemed to have paid off. At least for me & within my budget.
PF

 

[KeithH]

PomingF, congratulations on your purchase. Let us know how the '47A works for you once you get it and the 'P9000ES set up.

 

[JaleelK]

There is no bass management.

If that is the case, then we as consumers should reject the Pioneer Elite 47A DVD player and not purchase it. They know that one of biggesst complaints about DVD-A is the lack of bass management with some of the first and even second generation DVD-A players.

We should not purchase a DVD-A or SACD a player that doesn't have bass management and I'm not talking about the limted bass management that comes with the Sony SACD players.



Bass management should be the number one demand from consumers to the manufacturers regarding DVD-A and SACD, we shouldn't have to spend an additional $250 for an external bass management tool like the ICBM.



I heard how folks from the industry monitors these boards and if so, they need to read our complaints about the lack of bass management with these players.

 

[Phil A]

Just because something has or does not have bass management does not make it good. The same is true of bass management in receivers or preamps. If it is done properly that is one thing. I have turned off the bass management in more expensive players in stores and it definitely impacted the sound sometimes making it better. The ideal of course would be to get all full range speakers which is not necessarily practical in many rooms. The ICBM is another solution as well.

 

[JaleelK]

have the same delima, I am thinking of seperates(555es and Denon 4800) buthave got a fair price on the pioneer-$850 with no intrest financing for 1 year.

Howver, I also have the opportunity to pick up a 555es @$600.

I went to several stores this evening and could not find anyone that had a sacd multi channel disc that I could hear on the Pioneer.

The thought of a good combo player is great but I am concerned about overall quality of the tasks the player is to perform.

Any additional info would be great.

One thing that irks me about Sony SACD players, along with limited bass management, is the lack of a power on/off button the remote. Was that an oversight on Sony's part or was that just plain poor engineering. I just can't justify spending even $200 on player with those type of faults.

 

[JaleelK]

I have the same delima, I am thinking of seperates(555es and Denon 4800) buthave got a fair price on the pioneer-$850 with no intrest financing for 1 year.

Howver, I also have the opportunity to pick up a 555es @$600.

I went to several stores this evening and could not find anyone that had a sacd multi channel disc that I could hear on the Pioneer.

The thought of a good combo player is great but I am concerned about overall quality of the tasks the player is to perform.

Any additional info would be great.

I don't think you should buy the Sony or the Pioneer. With the Pioneer you get a universal player without bass management,which means, unless you have five full range speakers you're not going to get any low frequecies and how sonically pleasing can that be?



With the Sony, you don't have a universal player, which means if don't have a receiver like the Denon 5800 with two 7.1 external channel inputs, you're going to have spend about $200 more for one of those switch boxes if you have a receiver or pre/pro with only one 5.1 channel external input. Also, with separate DVD-A player you're not going to get bass managent or its going to be very limited and you will need to purchase an external bass management instrument($250.)like the ICBM from Outlaw.



If you are willing to wait and complain, like I'm doing and not purchase from these manufacturers until they get it right, you will be better off. Also keep in mind the meager software selections for both formats.