Have a couple of questions about SVS subs. (1 Viewer)

[Luis Cruz]

Hey all,

I have been thinking about changing my sub for a long time now. I've been dreaming of getting an SVS sub for maybe a year and am now trying to get a job while in school to get one, hopefully be able to get one in a couple of months. So I have a few questions for you HT dudes out there. Alright. I currently have an Energy e:XL 12 (I think that's the model) and I have been pretty happy with it minus some things I don't like about it. Firstly it has a great look and it sounds nice too. But the port noise bugs the heck out of me. Now the port noise only has been apparent now that my family decided to switch the furniture around. Ok...well, on to the questions about SVS.

The living room we have now is not all that big, but we are moving and I am pretty sure the house we do pick will have a big living room. Our current living room is about 12ft by 13ft. Not that big at all but when we move the living room will probably be around 20ft by 20 ft or a bit bigger. So here are my questions:

1) Have any of you SVS-owner's out there experienced any sort or form of port noise? If so how bad?

2) How would an SVS compare to my current Energy Sub? SVS models like PB1-ISD, 20-39pci or pc+, or PB2-ISD.

3) How would a PB2-ISD compare to dual PB1-ISD's or dual 20-39pci's?

I think that is it for now. The reason I asked question #3 is that I have been wondering if dual PB1-ISD's or dual 20-39pci's would be similar or better to a PB2-ISD. Because if the former is similar in all aspects to a PB2-ISD it would benefit me because I would be able to buy 1 sub now and then when we move another sub to go with it. But if the PB2-ISD is better then I'll probably just have to save more cash. But that's it for now. I can't wait to see your replies and I thank all of you ahead of time for helping a crazy college kid out. Thanks and God Bless.

 

[Wayne Ernst]

Is there a reason that the PB2-Plus is not in your list of options?

 

[Luis Cruz]

Well, I thought about the PB2-Plus but I read on some of the other post that the PB2-ISD and PB2-Plus were close in performance. So instead of spending an extra 350 bucks on the PB2-Plus I could put that toward upgrading my reciever.

 

[Pete Austin]

Luis,

Glad to see another "305" member. If you are looking to demo an SVS to base your decision on and answer your questions, shoot me an e-mail. I'm in the area and would be more than willing to demo mine for you. To answer your previous question, I have never experienced any port noise from my 20-39 PC+ and my current home theater room is just slightly bigger than your current room. Obviously mine is not the box design that you mentioned thinking about but if the performance of the PC+ impresses you, and I can't believe that it wouldn't, then I'm sure you will be happy with any of the PB2-x configurations.

 

[Wayne Ernst]

Well, I thought about the PB2-Plus but I read on some of the other post that the PB2-ISD and PB2-Plus were close in performance. So instead of spending an extra 350 bucks on the PB2-Plus I could put that toward upgrading my reciever.

Luis,

Sounds like a good decision. Thanks for answering my question. Since the "ISD" is still on pre-order, I'm sure we'll hear more reports on them once they get into the homes and theaters of more users out there. Like you, my eye focused on the ISD -- (2) 12" woofers and 600 watts (conservatively rated) of amplifier power is nothing to sneeze at. Plus, being able to plug ports to get deeper bass just ices the cake.

Now, I just need $950 ...

 

[Luis Cruz]

Hey a fellow "Miamian." lol. Thanks for the reply Pete. See, what I am worried about is whether or not one sub will fill up a big room, since the fam will be moving in the near future. I know any SVS will fill our current living room with ease, but how will it sound in a bigger room. If a PC+ could fill up a big room with hard hitting, deep base then I'll just opt for that as that will allow me to save some cash...since it's hard to save money while in school. :frowning:

I am glad to hear you haven't experienced port noise. I keep talking about port noise and my sub and I don't think I should if I ever want to put it up for sale on the Hardware For Sale/Trade forum. lol. But it's not that bad, only sometimes when there is some really low content on a dvd. By the way, how big is the room you have your SVS in Pete?

 

[Luis Cruz]

Now, I just need $950 ...

I hear ya! It's gonna take me a couple of months to save up the cash for my sub upgrade, but if I can sell my current sub then that will ease the pain a bit.

 

[Edward J M]

Regarding the PB2-ISD vs. the 20-39PC+:

A PB2-ISD will have the edge over a 20-39PC+ when both are set to 20hz mode. From about 16-25hz it would be close, but the PB2-ISD will edge out the PC+. Over 25hz and the advantage grows to the 3-4 dB range. So if you can live with the larger PB2-ISD enclosure, it represents a better performance value over the PC+.

Regarding the relative merits of the PB2-ISD vs. PB2+ vs. PB2 Ultra:

All three will have the same extension capabilities, but the PB2+ will have an edge in clean output capabilities, and the PB2 Ultra will take that another step further.

Going from the PB2-ISD to the PB2+ will give you a 2-4 dB jump. Going from the PB2+ to the PB2 Ultra will give you another 1-2 dB jump. So going from the PB2-ISD to the PB2-Ultra will give you a jump in the 3-6 dB range.

All of the SV subwoofers are designed to produce any input signal (music or film) as accurately as possible. The PB2+ and PB2-ISD will sound identical until the PB2-ISD reaches its output limits. At that point, the PB2+ will still be able to play another 2-3 dB louder without straining.

The above comparison stats were largely quoted from a Tom Vodhanel post in another forum. Hope it helps you make the decision.

Regards,

Ed

 

[michael_mo]

I have a 20-39 pc+ in a 15x25 room. That sub fills the room (and my house) at 1/4 gain. IMHO, I think either sub will be more than adequate for your room.

 

[Luis Cruz]

Thanks for the replies guys. If a single 20-39 will fill a big room, which I think is the case considering what people have said here I might go that route when I have the money. But then again, for about 100 bucks more the PB2-ISD does look tempting. I guess I might just have to save up more money. Now I haven't gotten any responses about how an SVS would compare to my Energy Sub? If anyone out there has ever compared the two how were the results?

 

[Greg_R]

How big is your 'big room'? Greater than 5500cu.ft. is considered large. Some people find that 1 sub is more than enough while others want/require higher output capabilities (or less distortion at the same output level).

 

[Ned]

A 20-39 won't fill a big room. I use one in a 10x12 room with no openings and it gets strained at reference levels (hitting peaks of 113-115db).

I would recommend the PB2-ISD just to be safe.

 

[Phil Iturralde]

A 20-39 won't fill a big room. I use one in a 10x12 room with no openings and it gets strained at reference levels (hitting peaks of 113-115db).

Interesting! My SVS 25-31PCi had no problems playing "Atlantis - The Lost Empire" DTS ES; "Jurrasic Park III" DTS (force Matrix 6.1 Mode); "Pearl Harbor" DTS (force Matrix 6.1 Mode); etc. @ REF Level w/115 dB+ Fast SPL LFE Peaks (measured @ my 'sweet spot') in my 20' x 30' w/10' high vaulted ceiling HT/family room** clearly with very impressive sub-sonic impact!!! (after I insulated 80% of the vibrations in my room of course! )

My older brother usually likes @ or near REF Level when it's just us two watching the DVD Movie or sampling LFE Demo DVD's scenes!!!

FYI: REF Calibrated using (Yamaha RX-V1300 / JBL S26 & JBL S-Center)...

Dolby Digital - "Explore Our World" DVD DD-EX Test Tones:
... 1) Dolby Digital EX HT Speaker Test Tones = 75 dB
... 2) Dolby Digital EX LFE Test Tone = 77 dB AVG (highest RS SPL Meter needle swing = 78 dB / lowest = 76 dB)

**20' x 20' cement foundation w/oak square flooring throughout into the kitchen.

My usual once or twice a month Friday NITE DVD (since 1998) sessions SPL level is approx. -10 dB below REF Level w/105 dB+ Fast SPL LFE Peaks!

Phil

 

[Ned]

Phil-

Well, I should mention that my meter was set to slow response and it read about 113db so I am extrapolating the actual db (probably 115+). Also, when I say strained, that's my subjective impression of the quality of bass relative to how it sounds when it's only 105-110db. The driver/port were still not past their working limits but the sound quality seemed compressed/slightly ragged. My reference is my friend's trusty dual servodrive setup (total of 4 15" drivers and 4 18" PR's). We can listen on his setup at the same db peaks but his has a much greater sense of control and ease.

Most would be quite happy just hitting 110db, it's all subjective and relative

I will have to try fast response and see what the db's clock in at.

 

[Frank Carter]

I never experienced any port noise with my CS Ultra on any music or movies. The only time I managed to get some was when I was running sine tones at at the tuning frequency at very high volumes, even then it was not very much.

 

[MingL]

On my 16-46pc+, I never get any port noise on normal movie material, even when I crank it up loud.

But on test-tones, yes, I can get port noise on a 16hz tone at insane volume levels.

 

[Edward J M]

A few things to keep in mind when discussing SPL bass peaks on the RS meter:

1) The RS meter is C-Weighted. The C-weighted curve by design reads progressively lower as the frequency drops, starting at around 40 Hz.

2) In addition to the C-Weighted issue, the RS meter is inherently inaccurate in the bass region. It still reads low, even with the C-Weighted correction factor included. This has led to the development if a unique set of correction factors specifically for the RS meter. These CFs are available on line.

3) At very high sound pressures in the bass region, the RS meter does not respond very quickly, even when set to Fast.

Combine all of these things and the RS meter is probably reading about 5-6 dB low in the 25 Hz region at high sound pressure levels.

So when someone says they are seeing 25-30 Hz bass peaks in the 113-115 dB region as measured on the RS meter C-Weighted Fast, the actual SPL is about 120 dB. That is HELLA loud for a single 12" driver. Keep things in perspective, here.

All subs have their limits, even SVS'. The SVS is designed to provide a linear frequency response at all volumes within its safe operating range. It is just as loud as 25 Hz as it is at 45 Hz. This linear response is what gives the SVS its well-deserved reputation for playing loud and deep. But it is also a double edged sword; the deeper a sub plays flat and clean, the more quickly it will reach its overall limits. Playing clean and loud at 25 Hz is much harder on a subwoofer than doing the same at 45 Hz.

Regards,

Ed

 

[Ned]

Well, when I measured 113db it was c-weighted slow response. But it was just the Titan A.E icefield scene. I don't think there's much bass in that

 

[Bhagi Katbamna]

My older brother usually likes @ or near REF Level when it's just us two watching the DVD Movie or sampling LFE Demo DVD's scenes!!!

What?, Huh?

 

[Tim Hoover]

My single 20-39 PCi easily fills my 20x25 HT room with the gain set only about 1/3 of the way up. I don't listen as loud as some of these deaf bass-nuts here, but doing 110+ dB isn't a problem with my room. Of course, every room has a different response. Mine is on a solid concrete foundation with extra-insulated walls, so that may help keep the bass in.

And in regards to port noise...can't say I've ever heard it