Gary Payton a Laker? (1 Viewer)

[Carlo_M]

True, if Kobe were to stop playing today he would not deserve it. HOF is indeed a lifetime achievement evaluation. But to compare him to Hardaway is equally unfair. Remember this is Kobe's 7th year and he's improving each year. By this time Hardaway had already proven to be a bust (of sorts, at least when compared to his early hype). Kobe is peaking.

If he is innocent and exonerated and allowed to play basketball at the level he has been playing at, I think you can extrapolate his numbers to a reasonable degree from now on out and conclude he will eventually get in there.

BTW, Kobe has not really accomplished much yet other than the 3 rings

I personally know two former NBA players who would scoff at that remark. Look at how Karl Malone is ready to work for minimum wage (for him) in order to get just one.

 

[Chris Farmer]

Payton and Malone to LA would be interesting. It definitely puts them right back into the thick of contention for the championship. However, I disagree with those that put them down as a lock. The Spurs especially I think would still match up exceedingly well against LA. Position by position.

1. Parker>Payton, Kidd (if we get him)>>>Payton
Anybody want to debate this? Parker whipped Gary Payton hollow, and that was in Parker's rookie season. Tony's even better now, while Payton has just gotten older. And if we get Kidd, this gap only widens.

2. Bryant>>Ginobilli
No questions asked, Kobe is one of, if not the best, shotting guard in the NBA. Manu is good and shows definite flashes of brilliance, but he's not there yet. Needless to say, this assumes that Kobe is innocent and is cleared of his charges (and I think both are quite likely, this arrest is totally out of character for Kobe, even if I can't stnad his arrogance)

3. Fox=Bowen
Both are roll players, neither is critical to their team. Bowen gives the Spurs a rock solid defensive presence who can defend Kobe as well as anyone can, Fox provides LA with strong leadership on the court. Neither is a key component of their teams.

4. Duncan>>>Malone
Anybody care to argue this point? Duncan was killing Malone in even his second season (when Malone robbed Tim of his first MVP). Duncan is now the best player in the league, bar none, while Malone is 40. Karl's good, but he's not in the same league as Duncan, and his best days are behind him.

5. Shaq>>>whoever the Spurs can bring in
Without Jermaine O'Neal, the center becomes the Spurs weakest point. If we get 'Zo this might work out alright, but Shaq is still definitely way above Mourning, and I don't see the Spurs bringing anyone in who can even the scales. Of course, if Duncan goes head to head with Shaq instead of Malone, or Shaq doesn't get his butt into shape, all bets are off.

6. Spurs Bench>Lakers Bench
Spurswill still have a fantastic bench. Malik Rose is a perennial 6th Man candidate, Jackson (or Manu, not sure yet who will start and who will come off the bench) is a rock solid 2 or 3 sub, Kevin Willis can still bang things up, and Steve Kerr is more then capable of taking over and hitting some very clutch shots. LA can bring some of last season's starters off the bench now, but they still have depth problems (although to not nearly the same degree as they had last season). I'd still give the Spurs the edge here.

The Lakers will be much improved over this season, but the addition of Payton and Malone doesn't make them a shoe-in to win the title. If the Spurs ad Jason Kid and a (healthy) Alonze Mourning, then they'll give LA all they can handle (and vice versa). And if the Spurs get Malone instead of LA, all bets are off.

 

[Reginald Trent]

On paper you make good points. However, there are intangibles, with the number one being PHIL JACKSON.

I'll take Phil Jackson and that lineup over the Spurs with Kidd anyday.

 

[Steve_Tk]

If Jackson can teach those 4 to play together, then I doubt they will even need a 5th person on the floor to win.

And just when I thought I wouldn't have to see Shaqs fat ass winning more championships....

 

[Denward]

ludicrous Hardaway comparison

I was only using Hardaway as an example of someone who had a few great years and looked like a future HOFer, but didn't fulfill the "projected" stats. There are many like this, and Kobe may be another. Only time will tell. Other examples where the jury may still be out are (flame suit on) Ken Griffey, Terrell Davis, Alonzo Mourning, Bo Jackson, David Duval, Johnny Miller (for the older folks), etc.

 

[Jan H]

Ok, fair enough. But Kobe's achieved far more than Hardaway has. In '95, with Shaq, the Magic got swept in the Finals. Kobe was a huge reason that the Lakers won 3 straight. He is as clutch a performer as there is in the game, and arguably the most complete player in the league. To think that this guy will not be in the Hall-of-Fame one day is ridiculous.

 

[Ross Williams]

Just when you thought the NBA couldn't get any more boring... Is there any reason to even watch the playoffs next year? It's gonna be a cake-walk for the Lakers.

Unless something drastic happens, I think the Kings have missed their window for winning a title. Good old choke-artist Webber ruins it again. (I know it's not his "fault" per say, but it's definately his typical bad luck timing with that injury.)

 

[Denward]

To think that this guy will not be in the Hall-of-Fame one day is ridiculous.

Do you think Kobe already has HOF credentials? I don't think he's there yet. IMO, he needs about 5 more years of good performance to get into the HOF.

 

[Jeremiah]

For arguments sake, how about we say the Lakers would have 4 HOF talents, it's true and means about the same.

GP is my favorite player and I am excited he will be on a great team. Payton has a lot of ego(all NBA players do), but he is mature enough now to not let it get in the way. He knows he is going to a team with Kobe(30 point scorer) and Shaq(28+) so he knows he will probably average about 15 a game, but his assists should be up to perhaps 11 a game. Nothing wrong with running a great team at the PG spot getting 15 and 11 a night.

GP can still play defense and with a back court of 6'4 GP and a 6'7 Kobe should be a great defensively, kind of like Jordan and Harper of yesteryear. Payton can still create his own shot and that will be huge since the Lakers really only have Kobe that can do that. Also, Payton can hit the 3 pointer as good as he ever has and he should get some nice open looks, add the fact that Shaq or Malone can clean up the glass and you have even more confidence shooting the ball.

Quoting someone regarding who will get the big shots: Just like the way the Lakers of the 80's did, everyone will want the ball but Riley(Jackson) will say who gets it. Practice will also decide on who is going to get the ball, if Kobe is dunking on GP, GP will not be crying about Kobe getting the last shot.

This is a huge signing.

If Kidd goes to the Spurs, it should be even more epic. I actually think Parker is much harder to defend than Kidd, Parker is quicker and more athletic but with Shaq and Malone down low, Payton can take more chances. Payton never had anyone like Shaq in Seattle.

BTW, Kobe has not really accomplished much yet other than the 3 rings.

This statement is just ridiculous.

 

[Jan H]

I heartily concur.

And, yes, 3 rings, 5 All-Star teams, 4 All-NBA teams, an All-Star MVP, plus the general consensus of being, if not the best, than one of the top 3 players in the league would be enough to get Kobe in the Hall right now, even if he never played another game. He's better than 90% of all of the guys in the Hall right now, including such one dimensional players as Alex English, David Thompson, and countless others I could name.

 

[Carl Johnson]

I agree that the league isn't as much fun to watch as it was 10-15 years ago but I'll seriously consider going to see the Pacers play when the Lakers come to town and I'll be cheering against LA when the playoffs come around even louder than I was this season.

 

[Jan H]

Well, I guess it's natural for the Lakers to be hated and envied. But unlike such profligate spenders like the Yankees, Manchester United and Real Madrid, you can't say that the reason for their success is that the Lakers outbid everyone.

 

[Kirk Tsai]

Good old choke-artist Webber ruins it again. (I know it's not his "fault" per say, but it's definately his typical bad luck timing with that injury.)

There is something to be said about great players' durability. Webber, throughout his career, has never been one of the more durable high profile forwards.

 

[Patrick Sun]

It appears that Karl Malone is going to join the Lakers...

http://msn.espn.go.com/nba/news/2003/0710/1579083.html

 

[Denward]

Like I said, I'm a Laker fan and a Kobe fan, but I don't think he would be in the HOF if he quit tomorrow. The HOF is largely about sustained excellence over a long period of time. While Kobe's talent is clearly HOF material, he still has to do it for a few more years.

Jan, I looked up your birthday in your profile. I'm only 4 years older than you and I remember David Thompson as being totally awesome. Now, Alex English was not flashy, but he could put the ball in the hole.

 

[Jan H]

Thompson was a great scorer and an amazing dunker, but like many in the Hall, including English, he thought defense went around de yard.


Malone is on board, too. SCHWEEET!

 

[Ross Williams]

Jeeze... why don't they just sign Kevin Garnett to play small forward and call them the Western All-Stars? I seriously think they could win it all with a three legged chihuahua playing the 5th spot.

 

[Robert_Z]

A spurs fan here. Kudos to the Lakers. Apparently having a nice free agency. They need it. With Malone going to LA, that means the Spurs must sign PJ Brown or Alonzo Mourning. Zo was always my first choice, until his agent said they won't release his medical condition until a contract offer is made. WTF??? But if Zo is healthy and goes to Dallas, which is what I have been reading, then wow, the Mavs are suddenly up there too. And the Kings are already up there.

It'd be nice if the NBA adopted my recommended playoff format in which teams are seeded by record, 1-16, regardless of conference. That way we could have a Spurs-Lakers type Finals, rather than something like Kings-Pistons, or the Spurs-Nets fiasco we recently endured.

As for my Spurs, I really don't care for JKidd. We already have a "point guard"/MVPX2 power forward in Duncan, and a true and emerging point guard in Tony Parker. If the Spurs really intend to keep Kidd rather than sign and trade, they must be planning to adjust their offensive philosophy.

I mean, with the emergence of Ginobili, the surprisingly good play of Jackson, with Parker's outside game improving rapidly, with Bowen the most efficient 3 pt shooter today, and with Kerr, the all-time best 3 pt shooter possibly coming back (and hopefully used more often by Pop), geez. It would be like the 94-95 Rockets all over again. Duncan in the post, like Hakeem was, and four bombers spread out at the 3 pt line. I remember those bastard Rockets with Ellie, Horry, KSmith, Cassell and (in 95) Drexler all camped at the 3 pt line. Man that was a scary offense. But with JKidd, that won't happen for the Spurs because the guy can't shoot to save his life.

 

[Carlo_M]

As a Laker fan I have to voice caution: as someone earlier pointed out, the team only looks good on paper (just like on paper Sacramento looked best in the last few years yet the Lakers and Spurs are the ones who hold the trophies).

Jackson/Winter's triangle offense is not the easiest to grasp, and I wholeheartedly worry about the 4 Egos / 1 Ball ratio.

Plus the pressure will be on for them to win it all. Sure, if Zo and Kidd go to S.A. then they will be co faves, but if that doesn't happen, and other teams don't do big free agent acquisitions, nothing short of a championship will be acceptable for the Lakers. That's a lot of pressure to work under day-in and day-out.

And we still don't know what kind of legal battle Kobe's going to have to endure in the next weeks/months, and even if he ends up being innocent, that may still take a toll on him. And god help him if he's guilty...

 

[Chris Farmer]

I agre Carlo, the Lakers may be stacking themselves with too many people that are used to being #1. Yeah, Malone took a pay cut, so what? The man's still making 1.5 million dollars next year, how many people will make that in their entire lives? It's easy to take a paycut when you've alreayd made more money then you can ever possibly spend. Same goes for Payton. Not making as much money is a one time decision that's easily made, but being the #3 or #4 option on a team when you're used to being #1 is a season long ordeal. On paper the Lakers look incredible (although not as far ahead as people being credit for, they're damn good, but not invincible), but trying to get all those egos is not going to be easy, even for Jackson. Look at the troubles there were with just Shaq and Kobe. Of course, if anyone can get it done, it's Phil, but I still think that meshing these 4 individually brilliant players into a team won't be nearly as easy as people seem to think it will be.