FATHER KNOWS BEST - Coming in April '08 (1 Viewer)

[Elena S]

It will IF it makes it into brick and mortar stores and gets publicized. Otherwise it will die a slow death much like other releases that have received no press. People have to know they're out there.

 

[Ivan G]

Well, the only real difference between the radio and television versions of FKB is that Young's character was not the wizened sage he played on the tube and the radio kids were a hell of a lot brattier. Other than that, I think it's safe to say that the radio FKB had just as much (if not more) influence in shaping the series (the characters' names, the setting, Young's occupation, etc.) than the Ford Theater episode.

 

[Hank Dearborn]

I actually came across a copy of Stage to Yuma when I was transferring some film chained episodes and I wondered what it was. Does that episode appear in the syndication package?

 

[Joe Lugoff]

No, that episode was never shown in syndication or network reruns. (FKB had primetime network reruns for three years, and daytime reruns for several more years.)

 

[LCD22]

I noticed that Brian Ward has responded to the FKB thread over on Shout's community forum.

http://www.shoutfactory.com/communit...read.aspx#2629

 

[Gary OS]

Excellent news. I've been anxiously awaiting a response from Brian. I figured he might have been gone on Christmas break, and was hoping he'd respond soon. I also know he reads this forum from time to time, so hopefully our discussions here have not fallen on deaf ears at Shout.

Gary "lets hope that it's not too late to get unedited episodes even if the first batch supplied to Shout was cut" O.

 

[Joe Lugoff]

It's ominous -- he doesn't even know what he's got!

Why isn't this first and foremost on their minds when they make these deals?

Let's face it -- the grandson doesn't know or care. Right now I'm putting the odds that these are cut prints at 75%.

And, OH, how I hope I'm proven wrong!!!

 

[RobertGr]

Hi

Here is the best info I have gotten re: FKB and I got the history of the show's care and condition. The show's masters have always resided in the Sony/Columbia vaults. The masters were not in the private collection of Robert Young's estate. In 1960 the show was edited to 25 1/2 minutes for their syndication. Shout and Sony worked to ensure the highest quality prints woud be used some of the masters degenerated as to ruin the visual quality so there is a mix of the 25 1/2 minutes episodes that exist from the initial syndication of the show in 1960. The rest of the mix is from later syndication prints.

I was born in 1961 so in reality the only episodes I have ever seen would be the 1960 versions of the later 1980's versions as I assume would be the same for most people here on the board. I am totally understanding of the situation Shout faced in releasing the show. Remember none of the producers of the era ever envisioned the home video market. Let's go back further that is why more than half the films made before 1950 are gone, no one (except Disney MGM with GONE WITH THE WIND) saw value in the films after the initial release and maybe one reissue. The same thing with early tv.

So we are getting the best available, Shout went the distance no matter what some will say to bring this out in the best available prints. I am hearing on the episode mentioned in the Home Media piece after that appeared a collector contacted Shout and supplied a 16mm complete print of the episode, since the quality was a bit less than the other version Shout included both versions in the set. if anyone wishes to pass blame put the blame on the decsison makers in 1960 to edit the show for syndication using the masters for editing and not copys. To the best knowledge of Robert Young's estate and Eugene Rodney's estate we are getting the best that is available.

I am hearing the extras are wonderful and have been put together with love by Shout, Sony and Robert Young's grandson. I also find that Shout is very happy to hear from collectors of the show who indeed might have original 16mm prints that might be first run prints for succeeding seasons, by all means reach out to them as it could bode well for future releases. You should e-mail them at the main e-mail addy "[email protected]"


After hearing this info I am even more eager to see the set and spend some quality time with the Anderson family and step back in time to when life's problems could be resolved quite neatly in less than 30 minutes! Bravo to Shout, Sony, Robert Young and Eugene Rodney's estates and fans if you have undedited prints from the original airings open your private vaults and share them with us all!


: )

 

[Gary OS]

Robert, thanks so much for this information. I'm glad to hear that Shout has done their best to get us solid prints, and I don't doubt for a minute that what you've described to us is the exact truth. And the extras really are going to be fantastic, so I'm happy and will be buying these sets.

Gary "keep us updated whenever you can, Robert" O.

 

[Joe Lugoff]

A few things:

The show didn't go into "syndication" in 1960 -- it went into primetime network reruns, two years on CBS, and then one year on ABC. Overlapping this were daytime network reruns on ABC. Then it went into syndication.

If they were cut for the primetime reruns and your figure of 25.5 minutes is correct, then I'm guessing no more than half a minute was removed. I guess I can live with that.

You say there's a "mix" between these 25.5 minute shows and later syndication prints (which I'm assuming are 22 minutes). What's the percentage? Are they mostly the short syndication prints?

One other thing I'm compelled to say is we keep hearing over and over that half the films made prior to 1950 are gone, but the vast majority of them are silent movies (many only one or two reels). Only a very small percentage of sound movies (full-length or short) are gone. (Can you name a major sound movie prior to 1950 that's missing? If it's true that half of them are, you should be able to name several ...)

 

[RobertGr]

Thanks Gary. Joe you make an interesting point about FKB on network tv for another 2 years after the show stopped production. It is quite possible that is when the first cuts took place. I am not an authority on I Love Lucy but I seem to have read the show was cut for reruns under the title of Lucy in Connecticut when rerun on CBS daytime. My understanding is re: FKB this is the result of exhaustive research on the Sony side of their records on the show. The mix or 25 and 1/2 and the 22 and 1/2 I hear is about 50 - 50. And on the over half the films before 1950 are lost that is the line we have been hearing from many famous film historians and that would be a great thread to start on the forum. But think about how many famous films no longer have o-negs I seem to remember "Sunset Bvld" being brought back to life via digital restoration because the o-neg is gone. In fact that film restoration got tons of press!

 

[Joe Lugoff]

I remember "Lucy in Connecticut" as if it were yesterday. Those were CBS primetime reruns of the final 13 episodes of "I Love Lucy," shown Sunday nights at 10:00 PM EDT, July-September, 1960. Whether they were cut or not, I don't know.

Anyway, a 50-50 mix on the FKBs puts me right in the middle, doesn't it? I guess I'll get the set, but it'll pain me each time one of them clocks in at 22 minutes.

 

[Hank Dearborn]

There were lots of stations, even in the 80s, which ran Father Knows Best without editing the prints for commercials. I picked up a bunch from Sacramento from around 1981 or so and they came in at 25:30. And I'm sure the PBS stations that ran the show ran them complete. Another question I would ask is, what about the 35mm fine grains? No one would have touched those. And, as studios go, Columbia is known as the one place where they kept everything, even their silent films, because they say the head of the studio was too cheap to pay someone to throw them out. Anyway, this is more encouraging news than I had been hearing but still, all they have to do is go back to the fine grains and I'm sure those aren't 22 minutes.

 

[Steve...O]

Robert, great post. Thank you so much for this info; it is much appreciated. Does your source say if the 1960 edits were made to the original negatives/fine grains? I wouldn't think so but stranger things have happened. Thankfully CBS kept many of their landmark 1950s shows in very decent condition which is why we can see uncut and sharp looking episodes of Lucy, Perry Mason, et al today.


Joe, I think the 50% figure is a blended rate of silent/sound films. Also, I'm not sure if the 50% number includes sound films that are gone completely or just don't exist in their original form. Films that are lost completely include some early Fox films which were lost in a fire. For example, historians have spent decades looking for 4 early Charlie Chan films to no avail. Another highly coverted film is MGM's The Rogue Song (soundtrack exists on discs but visuals are missing). In the partially lost category, many of Republic's Roy Rogers films exist today only in edited for TV versions; some which were originally color now only exist in B&W dupes. Gene Autry kept copies of all of his films in his personal library otherwise his films probably would have met a similar fate.

To your point, there are undoubtedly many minor and utterly forgettable films that were produced by indies and poverty row studios (PRC, Monogram, et al) that are driving up the number of lost sound films as well.

Steve

 

[Gary OS]

I too was going to mention the 4 Fox "Charlie Chan" films as an example of lost movies, Steve. Wonder why we both thought of those.

Gary "glad we got to the bottom of this issue so that I can now look forward to this long-awaited set" O.

 

[RobertGr]

Thanks Steve, my sources say the original film elements were used to make the 25 and 1/2 minute versions. The reason why Shout needed to go to some 22 and 1/2 minute versions is that the in some instances the longer versions quality has degenerated as to make them subpar. I am fully supportive of Shout, Sony and Rodney Young on this release and this is also a great opportunity for collectors to step up and maybe share their uncut versions that might be in their collections for future sets.

 

[Gary OS]

Exactly, Robert. There are guys that have posted in this very thread that have bragged, for years, about having uncut versions in their private collection. This would definitely be the time to contact Shout! Factory and share these "goodies" with the rest of us.

Gary "once more, thank you Robert for getting us these facts" O.

 

[RobertGr]

Thanks to you Gary, Steve, Joe, and Hank and all who get their great points of view out there. You know we all have been in a position of painting these companies as the bad guys on releases but most of the time this stuff happens because of events going back 50 or more years.

Another great example is the film version of "Seven Brides for Seven Brothers" I seem to remember hearing that team Warner worked miracles on that title considering the o-negs were ruined because they were used for the films reissue in 70mm and spliced and torn and basically rendered useless.

I feel that we can all benefit if we work together to help uncover some of the lost or mia gems out there. Shout deserves even more credit for taking challenge of releasing this very requested show. Hey Shout how about season sets of The Jack Benny Show and Burns and Allen?

And to my fellow posters you are all sincerely awesome in your dedication to film, video and televison! And the masters of this board have given us a great forum which also gives us the opportunity to be heard!

 

[Joe Lugoff]

Are Shout! and the other relevant parties willing to spend money to do restoration? I know companies don't want to release movies and shows with inferior scenes spliced into pristine prints, just to make them complete. (I personally could live with that, but I think most people disagree.)

 

[RobertGr]

I totally understand where Shout and other companies are coming from, they face the choice of putting out either a product that will have subpar picture quality and then get roasted alive by collectors swearing they have better quality prints "in their collection" or use edited syndicated copies where they are the best quality available and get roasted by collectors who swear they have "complete prints" in their collections. I feel they are making the best choice given what they have to work with, and they from my sources open to collectors contacting them regarding any uncut or better quality prints that might exist in thei private collections. Restoration is a very expensive proposition for any material especially a tv show that might or might not sell. I feel though if the word is out there that the classic FKB is going to be on shelves soon it will sell as it is a much requested title. A tv campaign on TV Land announcing the release would be a great way to go maybe by showing a mini-marathon on the channel with a blurb about the title now being available on dvd for the first time in a authorized release (April 08 of course). From what I am hearing the release will be a retro lovers blast from the past and a delightful loving tribute to the great show FKB and again maybe collectors will step up and help with seasons 2 - 6!!!!