FATHER KNOWS BEST - Coming in April '08 (1 Viewer)

[Professor_Echo]

Well, you are correct in that it does indeed make me less objective than I should be. However, were it the Number One show on my list I don't know if I would have the same capacity to make lemons out of lemonade as some on this thread have been able to do. Fortunately the number one show on my list, THE FUGITIVE, came out in a quality release, but I've had some disappointments both in film and television DVD releases so I am not just basking on the sidelines with this issue.

The "Pollyanna" comment wasn't necessarily directed at you specifically or maybe even anyone specifically as much as it was just my frustration at anyone who thinks that a corporate entity of any sort deserves praise, even faint praise, when they end up doing an inferior job.

It's releases like the SHOUT DVDs of FATHER KNOWS BEST and OZZIE AND HARRIET that make me want to do some extensive research on bootleg copies, as unpopular a position as that may be on these boards. At some point I have to question why I should give my money to a company that offers the same product that someone else does and has the possibility of being obtained legally through trading. At the point of a company releasing only a slight variation of the same thing, authorized or not, you have to ask yourself who the real bootleggers are.

(And full disclosure, I am NOT a bootlegger, nor would I ever become one, but I dealt with one or whatever you want to call him, a fellow lover of vintage tv would be how I would describe him. I went to him once for a series that will NEVER see the light of day in a major studio release. It was an off-air copy and I traded for it and I guess I was lucky because the quality was excellent on every level. I understand that people have had less than stellar experiences with bootleggers and I don't condone any illegal activity whatsoever, but I'm sure there are many who post on these boards that realize life is too short to put all your faith in the major studios always doing the right thing).

I agree with you, Gary, about the endless repetition and incessant bickering any message board has the potential of engendering, but that is, after all, the nature of this venue and even when the replies number in the hundreds-as this thread does-it can still yield some new insight and perceptive conclusions.

I've read EVERY SINGLE POST in this thread and I'm not even a fan of FKB, but the discussion, as repetitious as it may be, is still fascinating to me.

 

[RobertGr]

Gary, your posts are always on the money! I think we need to spell it out in plain english for anyone who wants to boycott this release. Face it Sony had not treated this show with the respect it deserved, in any converdation of TV in the 1950's and what life was supposed to be like two series are the benchmark FKB and LEAVE IT TO BEAVER. Sony and Coca Cola before them has reaped a lot of money on FKB yet they have treated it worse than an "orphan film." Sony evidently did not want to deal with the Young family and Rodney Estate, no they realized they owned the syndie rights and Young/Rodney owned the home video rights. Sony should have restored masters in their vaults if they indeed have a restoration program to preserve all the properties in their vaults. If the set does not sell, you will not see Sony pick up the pieces from SHOUT, no the releases will not continue if there is no support. In this case we will get more if we do support the set but vocally proclaim that the rest of the series needs to be released in unedited prints even if it means waiting a bit longer to secure the prints.

Sony has had what is perhaps the worst record when it comes to their CLASSIC releases perhaps tied with Paramount so no matter how you paint it SHOUT did the best they could with what they had available, SHOUT is not a major label so to speak along the lines of Sony, Warners or Fox. But if we support the product and SHOUTS' success builds perhaps they will be better positioned to do restorations of such old shows like FKB.

 

[Gary OS]

Fair enough. My biggest beef at this point is two-fold. First and foremost is that no one I'm aware of here actually works at SHOUT and knows the truth of the situation. It's a lot of conjecture and throwing stones when it's entirely possible people are completely wrong with where they are assigning blame. There could be much more to the situation than we all know, and it just seems senseless to keep talking about what "should" have been when we don't know the in-workings of this particular release or the contract details between Shout and Sony. Secondly, no one is bringing anything new to the table at this point. We are all saying the same things over and over. That's the only reason I personally wished we could move on. It has nothing whatsoever to do with "censorship" at all. It was just my personal wish that we move on from the same back and forth.

Having said all that I hope you'll understand that I plan on excusing myself from further bickering. I'll talk about the episodes or the extras or other type things, but that's it for me.

Gary "take care, gentlemen - and no hard feelings" O.

P.S. I composed my post before I saw Robert's latest. Just want to say thanks to him and that I agree with his appraisal in this matter. I'd still point the finger at Sony before I would Shout. That much seems very obvious to me personally.

P.P.S. Glen, you mentioned "The Fugitive" as being your top show release. It's mine too. That show was and will continue to be my favorite series of all time. What I was trying to say is that of all my favorites that were still unreleased "FKB" was at the top of the list because "The Fugitive" had already seen it's first set released. And the interesting thing is that we got a great looking set for the Janssen series almost assuredly because Paramount released it. Had Sony cared about "FKB" and looked to release it themselves instead of farming it out we might not being having this discussion to begin with. I would think the studios that own these shows would always have a far greater chance at creating clean, unedited dvd sets for us. Thus my frustration at Sony more so than Shout.

 

[RobertGr]

Gary thanks! I am with you on from this point on talking about the extras etc on the FKB, I am also focused on the continuing propsects and focusing on inedited prints for futures sets!

 

[Professor_Echo]

Trust me, Gary, I am no fan of SONY. On the contrary I believe they are one of THE worst corporations in the world. After a bad run-in with their customer NON-service about ten years ago I have pretty much boycotted anything they produce.

Now that they have farmed out just about all their hardware manufacturing to China they are merely cruising on the OLD reputation of their brand name. And as for the majority of their software, it's an embarrassment by comparison to other studios.

SHOUT still strikes me as being a very unprofessional operation, but they are positively magnificent compared to SONY. I think they each share in the blame for this slipshod release of FKB, but if you force me to hold any corporate entity responsible for generally mucking up the DVD realm, not to mention much of the business world, SONY has few equals.

 

[Hank Dearborn]

For those people who never collected TV shows prior to the advent of DVD, then you are in a different boat than I am. FKB was never a show that I extensively collected, nor wanted or expected to get all 203 episodes. I picked up about 10-20 of them from a station that was running them complete in the early 80s but there were also other shows running that I wanted so I didn't concentrate on just getting FKB. I also picked up some from film transfers as well. I would like to have a more significant part of the series and may look to trade with other long time collectors as I'm sure that there are people I know who might have more episodes. I will say this - I don't support shoddy releases as a matter of principle but I do take each situation on an individual basis. I have bought the following shows in edited/timesped form:

Combat - Timesped but apparently complete. Has not been available in any other form since the early 80s. Now I might be able to put my hands on episodes that were taped before that when they were still being syndicated on 16mm but it's just too much trouble and just not important enough to me.

Branded/Guns of Will Sonnett - Cut to 22 minutes but the show has never been available in the taping era any other way. There are no complete versions to be found, other than if you could find the show on film and they are not really around in that form.

Joey Bishop Show - Cut to about 24 minutes but since the show has never been syndicated, you can't get it any other way.

That's it. I did not buy other cut releases such as Cosby Show, Too Close for Comfort, Alf, Ozzie and Harriet. Again, it all has to do with access and priorities. FKB is not a show I feel the need or desire to have every episode of so if I can put my hands on a hundred complete episodes, I'll be content. I'm sure there are plenty of shows I want the full run of that others would be happy to have a selection of episodes. It depends on how important that particular show is to you.

 

[Gary OS]

Exactly, Hank. It really is all about that last sentence in your post. Since "Father Knows Best" is one of my holy grail shows I'm a little more forgiving in this instance. And funny thing. All 4 of the shows you listed above I bought as well for the same reason you did, Hank.

Gary "my kids are loving this set and are already on the fourth dvd" O.

 

[Jude86]

If you are referring to the first season, no, it has never been in syndication due to Joey Bishop's request. However seasons 2,3, and 4 have in syndication as witnessed by a TV Land run several years ago, which is how I first caught the series and grew to love it.

 

[Professor_Echo]

BRANDED and GUNS OF WILL SONNETT aired locally here in Los Angeles in the late 80's-early 90's, but as you said the prints were the same as those released on DVD.

Also COMBAT! was shown nationally for many years on the Encore Action Channel, uncut, ad free and in its original speed.

Hank, PM me if you are ever interested in trading DVD-Rs. There's a few shows I'm looking for where off-air copies would suffice. Things like LOVE ON A ROOFTOP and OCCASIONAL WIFE, both of which aired on the HA! Channel in the 90's. Also the second season of HERE COME THE BRIDES, which I don't think will ever be officially released, although I have no memory of it ever being shown in syndication. Also would love to see the relatively unknown shows THE OUTCASTS and THE MAN WHO NEVER WAS, but can't imagine who would ever have such things.

Haha, not trying to post a want list, just veering off a bit based on Hank's post about what shows were available in the taping days and what shows weren't.

 

[Jeff Willis]

Good post, Hank. I 'quoted' the points that I thought best echoed my thoughts on this issue that the FKB thread has seemed to "ignite" on the Bd. (Gary, did you ever think that this thread would turn out to be so interesting a discussion with lines seemingly so clearly defined? )

As with Hank, the FKB series wasn't on my "grail" list but I'm getting the release regardless for reasons I previously posted in the thread. Like you said, Hank, it's about ACCESS & the priority of a particular show.

Here's a couple of things I've asked myself since the beginning of the thread:

How many here that aren't going to get the SF FKB set already have the series in their private collections, either the entire run or, say, most of the episodes?

Also, is anyone here passing on the SF set and also ranks FKB as their #1 Grail series?

With my SF set in the mail coming this week, I'll put my last 2-cents in on the issue that's made the thread such interesting reading:

From what I've heard from Gary and others, the prints are easily watchable, better than the R66 S1V1 set, which I consider unacceptable for a non-PD legal/official TV/DVD release. That's my #1 consideration with this set on the purchase decision. We'd all love a FKB set with unedited, "paramout" transfers but as Gary stated earlier (and as I've mentioned earlier in this & other threads), unless someone here has the facts from inside SF, the reasons for edited eps, budget #'s for this particular release, break-even unit sales #'s, etc, are guesswork on our part in the forum.

To me, buying this release doesn't give SF an "A+" grade for its release but, given some of the TV/DVD sets over the years, I don't see where it rates an "F" for SF either (R66 S1V1 rates close to that grade for me).

Like you guys said, it's Sony that's got so many of the shows that we want "vaulted" up.

 

[Elena S]

I have to echo the sentiments of those on here who said some of the shows brought a lump to their throats. Actually, I was rendered almost speechless after a couple of them. I hadn't remembered how stellar the acting was, especially young Billy Gray's. The show had a way of tugging at one's heartstrings as it portrayed the love of family members for one another -- yet still keeping things lighthearted and fun. It's incomprehensible to me that no stations want to be showing this program today. It's simply excellent.

 

[Dan McW]

I taped the whole run off of Encore, and at least 90 percent of the episodes were time-compressed to 47-48 minutes. I know that at least one "unsped" one was a b/w ep with Sal Mineo. On the time-sped ones, the snare-drum rolls in the theme song were so fast that they sounded like AM-radio static on my TV.

I've enjoyed this thread, which has provided some interesting details despite FKB not being one of my "holy grail" series. McCloud isn't either, but the S1 episodes released were the source of one of my few rants on this site because I'd looked forward to the restoration of the episodes to their original form, and I was utterly frustrated by the DVD release. I can understand why edited eps are a deal-breaker for some here.

 

[Hank Dearborn]

A couple of points that are incorrect. Encore ran Combat with the Worldvision timesped versions, the same as everyone else. The fact is, when the show was put to tape around 1983 or so, it was mastered and sped up and that is the only taped version ever made available. The only way to have gotten Combat unedited would be to have taped it from a station running 16mm prints and it was not ever sent out that way once the tape transfers were made.

Love on a Rooftop has not aired ANYWHERE since ABC reran it in the summer of 1971. It never ran on HA or any other cable network.

Here Come the Brides ran on CBN as well as quite a few stations in syndication in the 80s. And both seasons of the show.

 

[Professor_Echo]

I stand corrected, though will wait for further verification should it ever be forthcoming. No offense Hank, but your sweeping assertions have been proven wrong before and in this very thread.

I didn't watch COMBAT! on the Encore Action Channel, but I assumed they were running it complete, which obviously was a wrong assumption and I'm sorry for perpetuating it as such.

I didn't have the HA Channel at the time, nor even any listings for it in those pre-internet days, but a friend who did have it told me that LOVE ON A ROOFTOP WAS indeed airing on it. It's possible he may have mixed it up with OCCASIONAL WIFE, but not having access to the HA archives, I'll take your word that this is true.

I also said I had no memory of anyone ever showing HERE COMES THE BRIDES in syndication, I did not definitively say it wasn't. I'm surprised I have not been able to find any copies of it at all anywhere online.

EDIT: UPDATE: According to a Senior Member posting in the forums at sitcomsonline, LOVE ON A ROOFTOP may not have been on the HA Channel, but it was syndicated: "there WAS a time, in the '90s, when Columbia Pictures Television bundled together a package of their "one season" wonders {"LOVE ON A ROOFTOP", "OCCASIONAL WIFE", "MR. MERLIN", etc.} and distributed them to local stations for a brief period. I believe at least one episode of "ROOFTOP" also appeared on their "SCREEN GEMS NETWORK" syndicated package (1999-2001) as well."

 

[Jeff Willis]

I watched the 1st episode of the set this past weekend. I admit I was a little hesitant about this set but after viewing "Bud Takes Up the Dance", here's my take as a virtual blind-buyer of the show:

Video: (1-5 with "1" being = to the R66 S1V1 set & "5" = Fugitive sets):

Solid "3". Easily watchable for me. If the rest of the set looks this good, I'm a happy camper. I admit that the "fade-out's" were a surprise but with the xfr Q being good enough for me to be able to enjoy the episode, the fade-outs don't detract from the viewing for me.

Audio: (1-5 with those Rifleman Box sets being a "2"....those are hard to hear for me):

4. I had no problems listening to episode 1 with a long-time hearing loss in both ears. "If I can hear these episodes, anyone can"

Content: I'd only seen a few episodes back in the 60's so it's basically a new view for me. My impression is that the show does an excellent job of presenting the mid-50's culture and lifestyles. I was "around" after '55 so I remember the late 50's fairly well. I liked the ending scenes at the dance . I noticed the "pace" of the dialog during the Anderson family conversations and I thought that it mirrored a real-life 50's close-knit family very well. My impression was that the dialog pace was faster than "Leave it to Beaver". I picked that example since the 2 shows' initial seasons were fairly close '54 & '57. Of course, the Anderson's didn't have the "Beav" to deal with Is there an "Eddie Haskell" in this show?

I admit to being a little leery of getting FKB initially as I don't normally buy any TV/DVD shows earlier than the late 50's (ie Perry Mason, Rifleman, Wanted Dead or Alive, Naked City, etc). I'm happy to say that FKB delivered in Episode 1 for me. Now all I have to do is fit another DVD set into the viewing schedule

Jeff "Gary, you were right about this one.... 's Up" W.

 

[Jeff Willis]

Just viewed the 2nd one, "Lessons in Citizenship". Enjoyed this one! I noticed that this one is one of the unedited eps, clocking in at around 25:11 . I did notice that the audio wasn't as good as the first ep, "Bud.....Dancing". I needed to crank up the volume and play with the audio setting on my Sony Receiver to hear the dialog. However, the video's solid for me. Robert Young sure had this part nailed. RY & Jane W did a great job pairing up in this show, playing one-off-the-other very well, imo.

One thing about watching Billy Gray.....it's hard for me to watch the guy without flashbacks from "The Day the Earth Stood Still" SciFi '51 movie. I always remembered that scene where that Army soldier asked "Bobby" about where "Klattu" went.... [Bobby] "They got in a taxicab and went down that street". [soldier] "Thank You, son" :alien:

 

[David Von Pein]

"You don't seem to know much about anything, do you Mr. Carpenter?"

"I like you, Mr. Carpenter....you're a real screwball!"

-- Billy Gray as "Bobby Benson" in "TDTESS" (c.1951; Fox)



"I assure you....such power exists."



I feel I must correct Jeff Willis above, however, regarding the taxicab scene -- it wasn't Bobby who told the authorities about the taxi. It was another neighborhood boy.

 

[Jeff Willis]

VP, great quotes At least I can spell "Gort" correctly :alien: Classic film, that one.

Sorry FKB readers for going on a stray direction on this thread. Maybe after I've watched more of the FKB S1 set, I can get rid of that "Billy Gray in the Yankees cap" image from the movie Plan is to watch the next FKB episode later today.

 

[VicB]

This was the original post and advertisement:
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Boy was Mitchum22's warning accurate!! Not only junk but an obvious copy from VHS tapes somehow. You can see the tracking problems, filckering and the quality was so blurry they were not watchable. Their phone number is non-working and they don't respond to their e-mail address. Absolutlely a scam

They are shipped from Canada, guess they think they are outside the reach of copyright infringement! The DVD's also stop playing with "Media Read Errors" all the time.

Buyer beware!!! Although there were 25 discs and the cost was cheap, they are not watchable and definitely pirated copies.

There was even a commercial for USA Today they forgot to edit out on the Christmas special!!

Good thing I used my credit card. They refunded the money and the vendor has 30 days to object (good luck with taht). Maybe I should just forward on the FTC and the Robert Young Trust who own the real copyrights.

 

[MTO]

Does anyone think there will be additional season releases of FKB? I sure hope so.