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Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Perry Williams, Jan 17, 2002.
What's the status on these titles?
I know, it is very annoying. Some places list them as released, but they are no where to be found. It is like GIANT which was released for about 15 minutes in Canada and then pulled.
These titles were tentatively rumored for last year and then were pulled for restoration. Hopefully we'll see them later this year. I don't mind the wait, as long as the time is being used to make these look & sound as good as they can.
These three titles are top of my wants list. I just hope that they do indeed come out this year.
Fall of the Roman Empire is available on DVD. I got my copy on Ebay from a seller in Hong Kong. It is an all region dvd and the print is great. It comes with optional english,, chinese and indonesian subtitles but no extras.
Brad, The Fall of the Roman Empire copy you purchased from ebay is it enhanced for 16x9 televisions. Also is it in dolby digital 5.1
I'd wait for the Miramax restoration's, that are hopefully out this year, if I were you Perry, but if not, you might wanna check if this import is in it's full 2.76:1 aspect ratio (it was filmed in Ultra Panavision 70)
El Cid and 55... are also being similarly restored (and hopefully preserved), and as Miramax comes under Disney, hopefully the efforts should be worth the wait - especially if Scott McQueen has been involved.
...all three titles (and Bronston-produced Circus World, too!) have been available on French R2/PAL DVDs since 1999 (and on Spanish DVDs since 1998!) - anamorphic transfers at the correct TARs, DD2.0 Stereo sound (original English soundtrack only), 'locked' French subtitles when the latter is selected...
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These titles have been issued in various territories but NONE of them are DD 5.1, OAR anamorphic, or include all the Overture, Intermissions and Exit music as in the original road show presentations. Miramax's restoration will hopefully include all these features plus extras.
"...but NONE of them are DD 5.1, OAR anamorphic..."
...read my fingers: all four French releases feature anamorphic OAR transfers...
...while it's true that none of them feature DD 5.1 soundtracks, it should be said in all fairness that when these movies were made digital sound was still several decades away - the 2-channel directional stereo English soundtracks on these discs sound very nice, thank you!...
...and, in case you hadn't noticed, the discs are released in France by GCTHV which stands for Gaumont/Columbia/Tristar Home Video...
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Calm down, there's no reason to get bent out of shape. Now do those dvds contain the complete overtures, intermissions and exit music?
According to the links you posted, all 3 films are in mono! And in the case of Fall of the Roman Empire, it's in 2.35:1 which is well short of it's OAR of 2.76:1 as mentioned earlier....
Hope you can prove me wrong politely...
Near the end of the laerdisc era, weren't all three of
these titles re-released in Dolby Digital?
"...Now do those dvds contain the complete overtures, intermissions and exit music?..."
No, admittedly they do not - but - much more important - to me, anyway - they do contain the complete, uncut movies - which is what I buy DVDs for, not for overtures, intermissions, exit music (although having those would be nice!)... also, not so incidentally and very likely, these movies were given 'road show' releases only in a few big cities that had venues possessing the requisite equipment for projection of 70mm films... most people, if they went to see them at all, got to see the plain vanilla widescreen 35mm versions...
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As all these film's were shot in 70mm formats precisely for the big roadshow effect, which was very commonplace in the 50's/60's, by not including the Overture, Intermission and Exit music by definition they are not complete as these are an integral part of any movie that had them.
As you didn't respond to my points on the sound formats and picture ratio, can we take it that all three DVD's are in fact not in stereo and TFOTRE is not in full OAR? I only make this point, because it's highly likely that the Miramax versions will be, and could be out imminently.
In any case these versions are now over two years old, and bearing in mind all have been independently owned up until recently, and as far as I'm aware not well cared for (hence Disney's need to delay release for a year to restore them) I would imagine the materials used to make the new transfers will be majestic in comparison to these existing releases.
As for the Laserdisc Dolby Digital tracks, if memory serves these were caught up in the hype of AC-3 when it first came out and like many LD AC-3 reissues of older titles, were little more than the existing 3-channel mixes with an occasional rear effect (they were more like 3-4.0 mixes, not 5.1). Although on 55... the whole film was in stereo, unlike the previous LD edition whose first half was monaural...
"According to the links you posted, all 3 films are in mono!"
...ahh, you did catch that! ...it so happens I own all four DVDs, and - as I stated in my previous post - the English soundtracks are in directional stereo (the French dubs are indeed mono - the info on the DVDfr site is in error - but then, nobody's perfect)...
"And in the case of Fall of the Roman Empire, it's in 2.35:1 which is well short of it's OAR of 2.76:1 as mentioned earlier...."
...EC and CW and 50DIP were filmed 'flat' on 35mm stock, using the Technirama process - they received limited showings as Super Technirama 70 features with AR 2.20:1 in selected venues (see previous post) - and on the French DVDs... most people saw the plain vanilla 35mm anamorphic 2.35:1 versions...
...TFOTRE was filmed anamorphically on 65mm stock in Ultra Panavision 70 - it, too received limited showings at the nominal 2.75:1 AR... here again, most people saw the 35mm anamorphic 2.35:1 version - which the DVD approximates very nicely...
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EC, 55.. & CW are OAR (I never questioned that) but TFOTRE is cropped from it's original 2.76:1 image to 2.35:1 which in your opinion may be ok, but I'd call that almost unwatchable - around 20% of the picture is missing, it was shot in that ratio for a reason....regardless of the 35mm reduction prints, that's like saying it was available on 1.33:1 pan & scan too on VHS - it doesn't mean, that's how it should be viewed.
Each to his own, I look forward to the Disney editions hopefully all featuring kick-ass remixed stereo tracks with the original directional dialogue where appropriate, DTS would be fab, hint hint
Actually, 2.76:1 films are supposed to be shown around 2.55:1 to 2.66:1.
For example...the so-called OAR DVD of Ben-Hur is 2.70:1. It's supposed to be 2.55:1. The DVD's image crops the top and bottom to simulate the extremely wide image.
Sort of like 1.85:1 films...the image on the top and bottom is there, but it's not meant to be seen.
Most 35mm anamorphic prints of Ultra Panavision films were matted so that when unsqueezed, the image would be 2.55:1.
www.widescreenmuseum.com has actual frames of this.
QUOTE: ...while it's true that none of them feature DD 5.1 soundtracks, it should be said in all fairness that when these movies were made digital sound was still several decades away - the 2-channel directional stereo English soundtracks on these discs sound very nice, thank you!...
Yes, but 6 track magnetic discrete (5 channels across the front and 1 mono surround channel were the norm for 70mm exibition when these films were released and these films were all exibited in 70mm.
I have the Criterion LD of EL CID with the AC-3 remix and there is almost nothing in the back channels. The only place that I noticed anything was when El Cid (Heston) is outdoors praying or looking for inspiration during a thunderstorm. I have an EX set-up and the storm was all-around me, very convincing! But, that's about it. Most of these older films won't benefit much from 5.1 remixes. I've seen some films done in 3.1, which suffices quite well. I'm not too concerned about the sound configurations, really. As long as the dialog is clear and music sounds nice I'm a happy camper. It's the visuals that concern me.