DVD Recorder DMR-HS2 problems

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by CraigL, Sep 25, 2002.

  1. CraigL

    CraigL Screenwriter

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    Got this unit two days ago. DVD recorder was easy to hook up. VERY easy to record to hard drive. Took some time to learn how to use the editing and mixing and whatknot but it yields great results!!! What goes into the hard drive looks exactly the same and in some cases, even a little better than what was originally recorded.

    Then I went to burn.

    Interesting turn of events...Tried to burn once to Memorex DVD-R and it failed me. The picture dropped out towards the end...got all this digital crap and then it eventually just died. Tried it again and it worked...but I'm disappointed in the results. The finalized DVD-R looks a bit more washed out than the original that is contained in the hard drive. One of the biggest reasons why I was hesitant to get into DVD-R is that all of the examples I've seen have had this problem, they're a bit washed out. The bootleg Star Wars and Indiana Jones have this problem as well as the DVD-R copies i've seen of both trilogies and the THX WOW disc I have. I have some other concerts that were put onto DVD-R and all together I've seen examples from the Pioneer, Panasonic and PC burners so it's not the burners themselves. It's as if someone brightened your copy a bit. I feel like I have to change the settings on my TV to watch them. I did a direct comparison...putting the DVD-R in my other DVD player and playing the Hard Drive version and there was a DEFINITE difference. I don't want to say the result is horrible...but less than good is accurate.
    I decided to give DVD-RAM a try since I read somewhere that they're supposed to be "better" than DVD-R. Guess what? The copy that I got looked identical to that on my hard drive. I was pleasantly surprised and then suddenly annoyed.
    Do I now archive everything on DVD-RAM only to never be able to watch it in other machines? Do I suck it up and just use DVD-R and hope that someday this problem is fixed? The whole point of my getting this machine in the first place is that I wanted to archive and edit all the stuff that I had on VHS. Now it seems pointless.

    At this point, I'd just like to return the recorder and wait until this problem is fixed. It makes no sense to waste $800 on something that's really not going to help me archive all my old VHS when it honestly doens't look better than VHS. I'm going to call PC Richard and ask what their terms are.
     
  2. Jay Blair

    Jay Blair Second Unit

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    I have the earlier E20 model and it does the same thing, and I think the E30 does too. I have the HS2 on order. This is definitely a bug in the Panasonic recorders (this is however the first I've heard mention of this problem with Pioneer burners), but for me it is easily solved since I play back my DVD-Rs on a Pioneer DV-37, which has a setting to change the IRE from 7.5 to O and this adjusts the washed-out copies for DVD-R close to perfectly. It does surprise me though than Panasonic still hasn't corrected this.

    I've also played DVD-Rs from a friend's Pioneer PC-burner and didn't notice anything wrong with the brightness level, but I don't know if he did something in the copying process to DVD-R to to correct the error.
     
  3. CraigL

    CraigL Screenwriter

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    Hey,

    I fiddled with it some more last night. Yes, the problem is with the finalized DVD-R. Yes, it also happens with programs recorded directly onto the DVD-R without the Hard Drive step. Yes, it is only in OTHER DVD players that are not the Panasonic. I'm only using the Panasonic for recording as I use my other player for Dolby Digital decoding and it has been input via the Composite input on my Wega. The odd part about all this means that the DVD-RAM may (in fact) have the same lightening problem as I can only play it on the Panasonic unit which makes them all look fine. My "play" unit actually has a setting that darkens the blacks but it still does not match the original copy. Again, I did a comparison between the finalized DVD-R and the original VHS and it looked washed out in comparison to the VHS...thus..making it look worse.

    I also did a comparison with the recordings I have a friend made for me on his Pioneer and my initial findings were wrong. This was not a problem with the Pioneer machine. The blacks were pretty much right on...if not a tiny bit darker than the original.

    So it's still Panasonic's problem and I'm not going to be spending upwards of $800 on a machine that has a problem like this. BESIDES the fact that it degrades the picture quality when it has to re-record for the finalized DVD-R from the hard drive. I'd rather wait until Phillips or Pioneer or SOMEONE comes out with a unit that correctly records material and has a hard drive internally.

    The Toshiba is sounding good to me. I think I'll wait
     
  4. Chuck Antinoro

    Chuck Antinoro Auditioning

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    So are you saying the DVD-R looks OK while in the Panasonic and looks washed out in "other" players?? In other words, if I were to play back all DVD-Rs in the Panasonic, it would look OK. Not that looking washed out on other players is minor, but if this were your primary player would playback of recorded DVD-Rs look good.

    I'm really interested in this unit but am now having some doubts.

    P.S. How easy/possible is it to make titles/chapter stops? And do they work in the other players, albeit with a washed out look.

    Thanks for being the guinea pig.
     
  5. CraigL

    CraigL Screenwriter

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    If you're using it as your primary unit (ie recording AND playing) you shouldn't have a problem. The player naturally plays things too dark, i guess. But that also means that other discs will look too dark.

    And you cannot make chapter stops. Every 5 minutes.

    Titles are easy to put on there...but you can't make chapter stops.
     
  6. Chuck Antinoro

    Chuck Antinoro Auditioning

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    OK, not to be a pest, but I will, since you're the only one who has this machine and is willing to answer questions. Although, maybe my best option is to buy the unit and test it out for myself. In any case, here goes.

    As far as adding titles, can you navigate directly to the titles? I'm looking to make DVD's of some sketch comedy. Could each sketch be a "title", enabling me to either watch from beginning to end, or choose the sketch I want from the title menu. Also, can titles be added to the DVD-R prior to finalizing, or does it have to be done on the HD and transferred? When you say there is loss in picture quality when finalizing a DVD-R from the HD, are you referring to the "washed" out look or is it more than that? Several online e-tailers (no local stores here carry the DMR-HS2 yet) have indicated that there is no quality loss from hd to dvd-r and vise versa, but maybe that's just a sales pitch.

    It sounds like your planning on returning, but overall, how would you rate this? And what model is the Toshiba you referred to?

    Thanks for your patience.
     
  7. CraigL

    CraigL Screenwriter

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    Yes you can navigate directly to the titles. They're set up like a chapter list.

    You also can only do this if you put it in the hard drive first...as far as i know. I only made one recording directly onto the DVD-R. My primary reason for getting this machine WAS the hard drive which I was going to use a great deal.

    YES there is a difference between the original version and the burned version for DVD-R's. Not only are the DVD-R's washed out but they also have to re-record the material so there is a slight degredation of quality. With DVD-RAM it burns it directly to the DVD-RAM disc the same way a CD burner does something at high speed. DVD-R does it at real time so if you're burning something that's 2 hours...you gotta sit there for 2 hours and watch it again while the hard drive replays it and re-records.

    The Toshiba I'm referring to is the one coming out with an 80g hard drive...ability to put chapters where you want them...high speed burning of DVD-R (which takes care of the picture quality issues)...etc. Pioneer is coming out with one similar.

    This technology is still too new and Panasonic should be Bi&ch-slapped for making this blunder on all of their machines.
     
  8. Chuck Paskovics

    Chuck Paskovics Stunt Coordinator

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    Craig,

    Do you know the model number for the toshiba drive, or when it is to be released? Also, any links?
     
  9. Chuck Paskovics

    Chuck Paskovics Stunt Coordinator

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    Here's the news article:
    http://www.toshiba.com/tacp/news/sept_27_02_rdx2.html
    Sounds like a good unit. I guess we will see...and it starts shipping in October! Wonder what the price point will be.
    It doesnt look like this will be the case with the toshiba after all. The article stresses in several places that you can do lossless copies to dvd-ram, but does not mention anything about lossless copies to dvd-r. So, it looks like you will still have picture degredation to dvd-r from video edited on the HDD then copied to dvd-r. Unfortunately.
    My question for you craig is this: If you copy something to the HDD in a very high quality and then write it to dvd-r in a lower quality how is the copy then?
     
  10. Steve Phillips

    Steve Phillips Screenwriter

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    I use both the Philips DVDR985 and the Panasonic DMRE20 in my business. I've made no secret of the fact that I think Philips has the better machine, and that DVD+R/DVD+RW is the better platform.

    However, I can't say I have ever noticed that DVD-Rs recorded on the Panasonic look strange, different, or washed out on other players. As for the recorder making less than exact copies form the hard drive...what did you expect? After all, this is the same as making a second generation video copy.
     
  11. Chuck Paskovics

    Chuck Paskovics Stunt Coordinator

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    That surprised me too, especially since other members have boasted how good their pannys have reproduced LD's. Maybe it's just the HS2 or maybe it's the recording settings.

    Again, I'd be curious to know if you get a good dvd-r copy from the HHD if the HDD copy is recorded at a higher (or max) setting.
     
  12. CraigL

    CraigL Screenwriter

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    Again...it's WIDELY documented that there is a bug in the Panasonic units.
    Check out the boards on AVSforum.com. It's all over there...and I've read about it on other forums as well.

    And as for the copies looking excellent...remember...if youre playing back in the same machine...it looks ok. But it's OTHER machines...that's the problem.

    And 2nd generation??? Baby, this is digital. It's SUPPOSED to be exact. 1's and 0's. That's part of the draw. If you can do it with DVD-RAM...do it with DVD-R. No excuses.
    And I'll just wait until there's a unit that can. Possibly it was the Pioneer that can. I know ONE of them boasted that you can transfer to DVD-R at high bit rates and losslessly. It was 4x.

    And to answer your question about recording at a lower speed...i didn't play with it enough to care. I made four recordings: 3 DVD-R (one of which didn't work) and 1 DVD-RAM. I didn't bother wasting my time with it any more than that. I didn't want to.
     

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