Jake Lipson

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Reading this thread, am I to believe the Die Hard sequels will not be coming to 4k disc?
Not under Disney's current plans. Disney buying Fox was great for Marvel because it meant that X-Men and the Fantastic Four were returned to them, but this new policy is one of the many significant downsides of that deal.

It might still be worthwhile getting 4K discs even if your current setup can't make much use of them.
I get what you are saying. However, I am the only one in my family who would even care about 4K. My parents are currently in the next room over about to watch a movie that they recorded off of cable in pan and scan, edited for length and content, and with commercials. The fact that this is absolutely not how the filmmakers would like for their work to be seen or that it could look better is completely irrelevant to them. Tonight's movie is at least not something that I own, but they have in the recent past been watching movies that way which I have, and I've said, "I can go get the Blu-ray and put it on for you" and they've said, "No, we're watching this, it's fine." As long as that remains the case, I have no reason to believe that we will get a 4K setup. Of course, I would like one, but it's not worth the money if I am the only one who would utilize it, and Blu-ray still looks pretty terrific, so I can't complain.

I have a small handful of 4K titles which mostly come from recent steelbook releases, where I paid for the included 4K disc because I wanted the steelbook, but I still just use the Blu-ray disc that comes with it. I think I've got about 7 or 8 of these, and will be getting Back to the Future in October for the same reason. Otherwise, I don't believe that there is enough reason to believe that I would get to use them to justify future-proofing every title. Even Back to the Future, the new Blu-rays are going to be remastered too, so that gives me an improvement over the discs I already have. If it's a release where there's nothing new on the included Blu-ray, then I usually don't bother.
 
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Ejanss

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Not under Disney's current plans. Disney buying Fox was great for Marvel because it meant that X-Men and the Fantastic Four were returned to them, but this new policy is one of the many significant downsides of that deal.
Not to mention their earlier plan of "vaulting" the Fox house classics out of distribution, like Aliens and Planet of the Apes, to make the re-releases into events, like their Disney classics.
Haven't heard whether they're still planning to go ahead with that, but the Die Hards would certainly top the list.

Meanwhile, it seems you really cannot benefit at all from 4K streaming unless you actually have a complete setup to display in 4K since there seems no way to (even) access and downconvert them like it's very doable w/ 4K discs -- I wish there's some viable way, but nada so far... And you can't get to the Atmos audio of 4K streams either in that case...
The only reason 4K is in the streaming discussion is studios' delusion that "well, that's where the movie audience is going to BE!"
Despite the fact that, even with a 4K set, a reasonably respectable 4K UHD stream needs a whopping bandwidth with which to send enough data to put you over your provider's monthly limit after two or three big blockbusters. Heard a few posters who had exactly that experience after playing with it.
(Vudu's app for the PS3 used to allow you to download complete regular-HD VOD files before playing, but Sony decided against hard files for the PS4. Like you'd be able to download a complete UHD file in a week anyway, even without ultra-high bandwidth.)

It's another example of the studio-vs-hardware battle trying to shoehorn the Next Big Thing into the current market to make it the new home-theater-normal as soon as possible, without looking at the technical pitfalls that consumers will be the first to notice.
 

jcroy

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The only reason 4K is in the streaming discussion is studios' delusion that "well, that's where the movie audience is going to BE!"
Despite the fact that, even with a 4K set, a reasonably respectable 4K UHD stream needs a whopping bandwidth with which to send enough data to put you over your provider's monthly limit after two or three big blockbusters. Heard a few posters who had exactly that experience after playing with it.
Maybe one day this won't be a problem, when 6G is a reality. (Never mind 5G).


;)
 

MatthewA

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I can't even get 4k to playback smoothly on YouTube after having my home internet service upgraded as far as it can go. That alone gives discs an advantage for now.

Also, didn't Iger mention something about "trouble digitizing older titles" at the last stockholder meeting when he wasn't busy continuing to maintain Uncle Remus's status as the Emmanuel Goldberg of Disney? So even if they wanted to release everything uncut and uncensored, they have technical issues to overcome first. It's tempting to take them at face value that these are just technical issues, but when has that ever worked out the way you want it to in reality when Disney is concerned?
 

Jake Lipson

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Not to mention their earlier plan of "vaulting" the Fox house classics out of distribution, like Aliens and Planet of the Apes, to make the re-releases into events, like their Disney classics. Haven't heard whether they're still planning to go ahead with that, but the Die Hards would certainly top the list.
Disney has essentially (for now) ended the vault strategy because everything that they normally put in a vault rotation is available on Disney+, and they have said it will remain so in perpetuity. Obviously, they could change their mind at any point that they wish to do so, but I don't think that's in their current plan.

Almost all of these titles are also currently in print on Blu-ray, too. The only exceptions are The Jungle Book, which for some reason has not received a Signature Collection re-release and for which the Diamond Edition is out of print, as well as the Fantasia films, which were last released on November 30, 2010 and went out of print I think in April or so of the following year.

I would be very surprised if they employed the vault strategy for any acquired Fox titles while not doing so for their own in-house titles.
 
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jayembee

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I guess this means that everybody who wants more catalog titles on physical 4K should make sure they buy Hocus Pocus and Home Alone when they come out next month. I don't have any idea what Disney's expectations are for how those are going to sell, but they'll probably notice if they do exceptionally well. I don't need either because I'm not 4K equipped, but if I was I would get them in a second.
Sorry, I have zero interest in either of those movies, so I'm not about to buy them just to prove to Disney that UHD is viable. If they want to test the viability of the format for back catalog titles, they can get me interested by releasing UHDs of The Sound of Music and Miracle on 34th Street for the holiday season.
 

Jake Lipson

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Sorry, I have zero interest in either of those movies, so I'm not about to buy them just to prove to Disney that UHD is viable.
I'm not arguing with you here. But for whatever reason, these are the two titles they have actually chosen to release as their "last" titles on the format, if what The Digital Bits is saying is true. So they are what we have to work with. I wish they would do others, but that's what they are giving to us, and it's up to us to take them or leave them. I'm not planning to get them myself, either, because I'm not equipped for that. But I would if they were something I could use.
 

Robert Crawford

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Now you know how 3D consumers felt.
Just remember most of us into 4K/UHD were also heavy into 3-D. With that said, Disney not releasing catalog titles onto 4K/UHD discs in the foreseeable future doesn't mean that format still isn't being supported by the industry. 4K is here to stay, they're not going back to strictly HD.
 
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Jake Lipson

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This has also happened before with Disney where they support the format fully with brand new blockbuster titles, but ignore the live-action catalog.

As a random example, Angels in the Outfield from 1994 only has a non-anamorphic DVD. They never saw fit to release it on Blu-ray, even as one of their Movie Club exclusives, and as of right now it's not on Disney+ either. This included a terrific lead performance from a very young Joseph Gordon-Levitt, acting opposite Christopher Lloyd, Danny Glover and Tony Danza. I loved that movie and played the VHS regularly as a kid. I would welcome a modern release of this that takes advantage of even just Blu-ray, but Disney doesn't care. Why would they care about 4K if they couldn't even be bothered to do an anamorphic DVD?

There are also a bunch of catalog live-action films that did get released as Movie Club exclusives for high SRPs with none of their DVD-era bonus material ported over, like The Parent Trap with Lindsay Lohan and Holes, off the top of my head. Those are more recent live-action films from the late '90s and early 2000s (Holes was 2003), which match the era where they upgraded all of their animated titles to Blu-ray. If those more modern films aren't going to get the respect they deserve, certainly stuff from the '50s, '60s, '70s and '80s are long shots.

So...ignoring the live-action catalog is unfortunately par for the course with Disney. They've done it before and seem all set to do it again, which is why this news didn't surprise me at all when I read it. The difference is that when they were doing this with DVD and Blu-ray, they didn't also have Fox's library titles under their, um, "care." But it still seems wholly consistent with their behavior relative to catalog films.

Hell, they haven't even given Walt-era animation 4K bumps at this point. The oldest of their evergreen animated titles that is available on 4K is The Little Mermaid from 1989. All of the older Signature Collection titles, including the super-wide Sleeping Beauty of which a 70mm print exists, got reissued on Blu-ray only, signaling Disney's disinterest in doing anything about those titles beyond that.

Again..par for the course.
 
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atcolomb

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Wanted The Black Hole on Blu-ray but not thru their movie club and what really sucks is not a great transfer and no extras on it. The dvd had the trailer and a short segment on the making of the film.
 

Rick Thompson

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This has also happened before with Disney where they support the format fully with brand new blockbuster titles, but ignore the live-action catalog.

As a random example, Angels in the Outfield from 1994 only has a non-anamorphic DVD. They never saw fit to release it on Blu-ray, even as one of their Movie Club exclusives, and as of right now it's not on Disney+ either. This included a terrific lead performance from a very young Joseph Gordon-Levitt, acting opposite Christopher Lloyd, Danny Glover and Tony Danza. I loved that movie and played the VHS regularly as a kid. I would welcome a modern release of this that takes advantage of even just Blu-ray, but Disney doesn't care. Why would they care about 4K if they couldn't even be bothered to do an anamorphic DVD?
Try the original in glorious b/w with Paul Douglas and Janet Leigh. It has more charm and less sugar than the remake. Since it's in Academy 4:3 ratio you don't have to worry about anamorphic.
 
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Ejanss

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Now you know how 3D consumers felt.
Namely, when studios wanting to cut their own losses on a slow niche format that wasn't going over with mass customers in the big Target-Mart retails tried to wash their hands of responsibility, and say "Oh, well, EVERYBODY'S BEEN SAYING the format's dying anyway!"

(Like when Disney tried to bluff the industry with "Every studio's been getting out of 3-D!" after the Oz blowup, even though every major studio was still releasing titles, including their own Pixar and Marvel.)

Hell, they haven't even given Walt-era animation 4K bumps at this point. The oldest of their evergreen animated titles that is available on 4K is The Little Mermaid from 1989. All of the older Signature Collection titles, including the super-wide Sleeping Beauty of which a 70mm print exists, got reissued on Blu-ray only, signaling Disney's disinterest in doing anything about those titles beyond that.
To their credit, most of the featured Movie-of-the-Months on Disney Movie Club have been the 4K combos, although I'm not sure whether they were going all-in on believing that was what core home-theater members were buying, or whether it was the ones that needed extra selling.
And if even those niche customers weren't buying enough, that still basically says volumes about how 4K UHD just never sorta happened.

As for why live-action and CGI, I remember Disney first getting into Blu-ray, and having to bump Dinosaur and Chicken Little into "classic" status just because they didn't know how hi-def would look, were terrified of releasing traditional ink-and-paint titles on the Blu format because we might "see all those brushstrokes", and didn't know whether they could ever release anything that wasn't crisp CGI. And even then, they had to bump Sleeping Beauty up the list because the entire industry didn't know whether old 4:3 movies would survive widescreen sets.
(Anyone who's bought the recent Signature sets: Do they still have those artistic DisneyVision "borders" that the first Disney Blu's put onto Snow White and Pinocchio, or are they now comfortable with everyone watching old movies?)
 
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akatanaka

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The Tyranny of Streaming

Very disturbing. Yet, what do we expect? It seems to me that when an oligarchy like Disney has a monopoly on such a vast catalog of classic films by 20th Century Fox, not to mention their own back catalog of films, this sort of behaviour is a foregone conclusion.

When a company is based primarily on greed, power and control - the bottom line being money - as Disney seems to show by its actions time and again, it simply won’t have it’s customer base’s interests at heart, indeed, it will force changes to suit its own ends.

That is what is currently happening in the Movie Streaming business as a whole, and Disney + is but one prime and obvious example, IMO.

You see, it doesn’t matter to these corporations that, by necessity, streaming has far lower bitrates than the equivalent on physical media (like BD and UHD 4K BD), adversely affecting picture quality - not to mention the sound - they don’t care if we film lovers get the best, unless it can make them mountains of money...

But most of all, they don’t want us to have physical media because they can’t control what we watch that way. And they do want that control.

With Streaming, they have that control.

For example, it doesn’t matter to these companies if you buy a digital streaming version of your favourite movies in HD, and then, down the road, they decide to reduce the quality of them to standard definition, possibly because the HD versions aren't selling well enough... it’s happened to me!

So buy all your favourite movies on physical media from every boutique video company, and big movie companies that support 4K and BD, while you can, because, if this trend continues, (and why wouldn’t it?), we’ll only have one choice eventually... (that goes for the 4K players too, because things break down!)

We humans never seem to learn from our history and repeat these same processes with each new generation. A sort of recurring blind spot.

I’m a senior. I’ve seen it all...

And since it seems to be human nature to take the path of least resistance, we’ll eventually accept what they give us...

It’s ‘1984’ all over again... and again... and again...


Apologies... Unfortunately, I believe it's true. We need a wake up call.
 
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Paul_Warren

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I will happily give my money to Universal, Sony, WB & even Paramount & Lionsgate then as they all seem to believe in keeping plenty of 4K UHD Disc releases in 2020 and I am happy to fully support them!!

Maybe one day soon Disney will understand many places in the world cannot even stream their + channel with 4K HDR so its not viable & not pressing any physical media means Disney will potentially lose a lot of revenue as most of their 4K content is not going to be available to large markets outside North America for many years to come due to ISP bandwidth restrictions!!

Who even needs D+ for content already available on BD!!

I can think of 40-50 Fox-Disney catalog titles (many from the 1950s-80s) I would buy on 4K UHD disc if the transfer is decent but as this is not going to happen that money goes elsewhere & may never go to Disney if they want to sit on their hands with this short sighted no physical media strategy!!
 
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Dave H

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Doesn't surprise me. I wouldn't be shocked if they pulled them plug completely on the format and all physical media within 2-3 years.
 

Jake Lipson

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I wouldn't be shocked if they pulled them plug completely on the format and all physical media within 2-3 years.
I think they'll still continue releasing new films like the upcoming MCU theatrical titles and whatever Walt Disney Animation Studios, Disney live action, Pixar, Lucasfilm and 20th Century Not Fox are doing as current titles. They'll continue selling new titles from their big brands until no one buys it. But stuff like that will likely be it.
 
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Ejanss

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Doesn't surprise me. I wouldn't be shocked if they pulled them plug completely on the format and all physical media within 2-3 years
The keyword being "They" = "Disney", and not "All the studios".
Oftentimes, you'll see one sales-disgruntled studio trying to whisper-campaign their own wishes into reality, by trying to make it look like "everybody" was thinking it, and they weren't the freak.

Disney's a chief offender, and Warner still has blood on their hands from almost singlehandedly trying to orchestrate the "Disks are dying!" war in the 10's to promote Digital VOD, just so they wouldn't lose more money on wide mass-retail disk releases.
(And even then, the whole "Death of physical disk!" campaign is believed to have first started with Microsoft, who was a poor loser over having backed Toshiba's HDDVD, but hoped they'd still have a chance at cornering the new digital disk-coding if Digital VOD became the dominant format. It became one of those things that every tech-press analyst "read somewhere" that "top industry execs were saying" but could never recall WHO or WHERE.)
 

Dave H

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The keyword being "They" = "Disney", and not "All the studios".
Oftentimes, you'll see one sales-disgruntled studio trying to whisper-campaign their own wishes into reality, by trying to make it look like "everybody" was thinking it, and they weren't the freak.

Disney's a chief offender, and Warner still has blood on their hands from almost singlehandedly trying to orchestrate the "Disks are dying!" war in the 10's to promote Digital VOD, just so they wouldn't lose more money on wide mass-retail disk releases.
(And even then, the whole "Death of physical disk!" campaign is believed to have first started with Microsoft, who was a poor loser over having backed Toshiba's HDDVD, but hoped they'd still have a chance at cornering the new digital disk-coding if Digital VOD became the dominant format. It became one of those things that every tech-press analyst "read somewhere" that "top industry execs were saying" but could never recall WHO or WHERE.)
Of course, by "they" I was talking about Disney,
 

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