Difference between Onkyo and Integra?

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by ChrisAG, Nov 27, 2001.

  1. ChrisAG

    ChrisAG Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2001
    Messages:
    503
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Is Integra the "high line" of Onkyo, or are they two separate entities? If one is considering Onkyo, would it make sense to spend a bit more for the Integra equivallent? Specifically, I'm considering the Onkyo 797 and Integra 7.2. Are the differences audible?
     
  2. Jeff Weight

    Jeff Weight Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2001
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I own an Integra 7.1 and looked at the Onkyo 787 before buying.

    To answer your question, yes Integra is Onkyo's hi-end line. They offer better interanl components as compaired to Onkyo. Many will argue that they are the same. But I have had the cover off both and the Integra uses differnt PC boards than the Onkyo. They also use the Fine Gold components they state in the brochure. The Integra will allow you more multi room options than the comparable Onkyo.

    As far as sound goes, I believe there is a difference. At least there is to my ears. However, I haven't been able to do a comparison on the same set of speakers.

    One definate advantage to Integra is a 3 year warranty.

    You can get opinions all day long on this. In the end, let your ears and wallet make the decision.
     
  3. JaleelK

    JaleelK Second Unit

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2001
    Messages:
    296
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    "I own an Integra 7.1 and looked at the Onkyo 787 before buying.

    To answer your question, yes Integra is Onkyo's hi-end line. They offer better interanl components as compaired to Onkyo. Many will argue that they are the same. But I have had the cover off both and the Integra uses differnt PC boards than the Onkyo. They also use the Fine Gold components they state in the brochure. The Integra will allow you more multi room options than the comparable Onkyo.

    As far as sound goes, I believe there is a difference. At least there is to my ears. However, I haven't been able to do a comparison on the same set of speakers.

    One definate advantage to Integra is a 3 year warranty.

    You can get opinions all day long on this. In the end, let your ears and wallet make the decision."

    Integra is just slick marketing way to ge more money out of gullible consumers. There is no proof that PC boards, gold components, etc. adds anything to improve sound quality.

    Integra, like Elite and those fancy names tend to play to snob(ego)in consumers, somehow buying those brands places one above those who would by a regular Onkyo or a regular Pioneer,these companies that do that fail to offer any proof of any kind of sonic improvement.

    Beware of snake oil.
     
  4. Philip Hamm

    Philip Hamm Lead Actor

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 1999
    Messages:
    6,873
    Likes Received:
    2
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Thanks for the wisdom, Jaleel. [​IMG]
     
  5. NickSP

    NickSP Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    May 8, 2001
    Messages:
    569
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Have to somewhat agree with Jaleel. The Onkyos and the Integras weigh the same and have the same exact specs. While I don't believe that an Integra sounds better than the Onkyos, I do beleive that buying an INtegra means you are getting more in terms of warranty(an extra year), some handpicked parts, and gold connectors and maybe future upgradability on some receivers.

    While all the above may not make a difference in sound, it might make an overall difference in dependability and durability of the Integras over the Onkyos. I own the 898 and feel that the 898 is as solidly built as any Integra except for the few differences mentioned.
     
  6. Dan Hine

    Dan Hine Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2000
    Messages:
    1,312
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
     
  7. NickSP

    NickSP Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    May 8, 2001
    Messages:
    569
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Dan, i don't think that people would walk in an audio store to buy an Onkyo 797/898 or a Denon 3802, etc. for a father's day gift either. The Integras are only a couple of hundred more than their Onkyo counterparts. I believe most buyers of the Onkyo 797/898 do not buy the Integra counterparts because they simply don't hear the difference.
     
  8. Dan Hine

    Dan Hine Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2000
    Messages:
    1,312
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Everyone be advised that the following is my opinion, not something I'm trying to portray as fact...

    Nick,

    If they don't hear the difference then great! They get to save a few hundred dollars. My point was that more often than not, people who are choosing between upper end Onkyo and Integra products ARE listening. So if they buy an Integra that means they COULD hear/see a difference or benefit. And if the stick with the Onkyo then they did NOT hear/see a difference or benefit.

    In other words these consumers are not people being taken in by "snake oil". They are auditioning units and making a choice based on their experiences.

    Dan Hine
     
  9. Jeffrey_Jones

    Jeffrey_Jones Second Unit

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2001
    Messages:
    283
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hello,

    I would really like to hear from someone that has done a fair comparison of Onkyo vs. Integra. By fair I mean a blind comparison where you are listening to the same speakers, same source, in the same sound room, connected by the same interconnect and without a significant amount of time between receiver switching. To my knowledge, nobody on this forum has done such a comparison. I know that I would be hard pressed to hear a difference between the 898 and the 8.2 in this setting. Even if I did hear a difference, I wouldn't be able to tell you which one was better.

    That being said, the price difference might still make sense to someone looking for a longer warranty, a different (some say better) appearance, "upgraded" components and a detachable power cord. Some feature differences as well, but very small.

    I thought long and hard and eventually bought the 898 as I could get “A” stock from an online retailer at a ridiculous discount. That was not true of the Integra counterpart.

    Just my opinion.

    Thanks,

    Jeff
     
  10. Dan Hine

    Dan Hine Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2000
    Messages:
    1,312
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Hahahaha....all these threads are starting to remind me of the Kia commercials. "I have all the features you do and I paid $5000 less." Let's just enjoy what we have and let others do the same....[​IMG]
    Dan Hine
     
  11. Frank Frandsen

    Frank Frandsen Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Dec 15, 1998
    Messages:
    112
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Onkyo complicates it even further with the Integra Research line. While the products in the line are unique they use the same remotes as the 2 lesser priced lines. The RDC-7 rocks, however.[​IMG]
     
  12. Jeff Weight

    Jeff Weight Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2001
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Ok, I've read all the threads after mine. I understand how you could feel the way you do. I'm not here to change your minds, but just to explain my point of view, and hopefully make you think.

    1. If the Onkyo & Integra units are the same, why would they go to the trouble of producing different PC boards, each with their corrisponding name embeded within?

    2. Why are there "fine gold" as Integra calls them capacitors and resisters in one unit and not in the other?

    3. Where did this hang up in weight come from? A better power supply could use a more pure copper winding than a cheaper power supply, while weighing the same. Also, capacitor and resistor manufactures sell many grades of the same part, with the only difference being the tolerance levels in the part. These parts don't weigh any more or less than each other. Yet their performance difference is substaintal. Yes this difference can be audible.

    4. To say they are the same because the specs are the same is crap. The specs are basically the same in the Denon, Yamaha, Pioneer, HK, & Sony. But do they sound the same? NO!

    I agree with Dan and thank him for his comments.

    To set the record straight, I bought what I considered the best receiver in my price range. I did listen to the Onkyo and felt that the sound wasn't as refined as the Integra. If you don't hear a differenc between them, thats fine. I heard one. As far as price goes, I could have bought either. It wasn't until after choosing the Integra, that I learned that I could purchase it for less than the Onkyo.

    If the price of the Integra was the same as the Onkyo, I believe that all of you would own Integra's.
     
  13. Jeffrey_Jones

    Jeffrey_Jones Second Unit

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2001
    Messages:
    283
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Jeff,
    I'm sorry but I believe you are a victim of marketing hype more then you think. Unless you performed a double blind comparison in the same store at the same time (something that I believe is impossible, as no retailer carries and displays both Onkyo and Integra) I can't believe that you heard a difference between comparable receivers. I know the typical store that carries Onkyo and the typical store that carries Integra. I also know that the Integra's showcase was most likely a more ideal listening environment.
    As I have said before, I believe there are valid reasons to buy an Integra instead of an Onkyo, but sound quality just isn't one of them. In the end, it just doesn't matter. People should buy what they like and not put so much stock in other people's opinions.
    As far as your comment about everyone buying Integra instead of Onkyo if the price was the same. No offense, but this is a ridiculous comment. We would also all have Kimber Select speaker cable running to our bookshelf sized rear channel speakers if it cost the same as 12 gauge Monster Cable. Would we hear a difference...I don't think so.
    Thanks,
    Jeff
     
  14. NickSP

    NickSP Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    May 8, 2001
    Messages:
    569
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Agreed with Jeffrey_Jones.

    Dan, no need to make the KIA reference, it only takes away the seriousness of your previous posts. I did admit that there are definitely better parts in the INtegra than their Onkyo counterparts and a longer warranty in my very first post.

    OK, if the Onkyos were built as cheaply as some other receivers on the market then yes, the Integras would have definetely been a clearer choice. However that is not the case.

    Jeff, I have tested both the units under one roof on smilar speakers for about an hour and could not tell the difference in both HT and music. Like I said before, I was getting the Integra for about $200 more than the 898, not a huge price difference. Had I heard even a minute difference, I would have gone for the Integra.

    We all buy our gear on how we perceive things. We should not be justifying our purchases to anyone neither should we be putting anyone elses gear down.
     
  15. Dan Hine

    Dan Hine Screenwriter

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2000
    Messages:
    1,312
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Personally, I like my Kia reference because that is exactly how I see things happen on this board. Someone else has something different that they think is better and try to rub it in other peoples faces. Or they downtalk someone else's decision and try to make them seem stupid. NO I am not saying that is what you are doing, but it does happen.

    Nicksp and Jeffery Jones (quote is by Nick),

     
  16. Jeff Weight

    Jeff Weight Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2001
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    NickSP,

    I believe you made an error.

    quote:

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I have tested both the units under one roof on smilar speakers for about an hour and could not tell the difference in both HT and music.

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    According to your quote, you only used simlar speakers. Well, if you didn't use the exact speakers, cd or dvd player, and cable your test are flawed.

    And since you already know that the Integra uses better quality parts, it's obvious your ear isn't trained to hear the subtle differences these cause.

    Jeffrey_Jones

    Even if you believe they sound the same. Don't asume you can tell me how I feel about it. Simply only I can be the judge of that.

    Also if you don't think you can hear the difference between Kimber Select and standard Monster cable, maybe you should stick with Consumer Reports.
     
  17. Jeffrey_Jones

    Jeffrey_Jones Second Unit

    Joined:
    Nov 6, 2001
    Messages:
    283
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    I apologize. It was never my intent to tell you what I think you should hear. That is my biggest pet peeve on this forum...as can be seen in my rants in the Bose thread currently going on [​IMG] I couldn't hear a difference.
     
  18. NickSP

    NickSP Supporting Actor

    Joined:
    May 8, 2001
    Messages:
    569
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Dan, I too do not want to blow this up more than it already has so to each his own.

    Jeff, sorry I said "similar" speakers, I meant to say the same speakers.

    Anyway, although I agree that the Integra is made with better parts, I do not agree that it will necessarily sound better than their Onkyo counterparts, but, they might have a longer life than their Onkyo counterparts and offer more reliability.

    Yeah, maybe my ears are not as "Trained" as yours to find the difference between the 2 and that is what makes you an audiophile and makes me as enthusiast.
     
  19. Matty B

    Matty B Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2001
    Messages:
    227
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Sometimes the people on this board so SO frustrating. PLACEBO EFFECT PEOPLE. You would think people that could afford thousands of dollars of home audio equipment could employ SOME common sense. In TEST after TEST people will ALWAYS pick the more expensive, more hyped, better looking reciever. That is why there is such a thing as the DOUBLE blind test. and you CANT setup your own double blind, you need someone else to do it with you. Of COURSE you people that think you can hear the difference think you can hear the difference, because you CAN! Your brain is TRICKING you. This is SCIENCE, it's not skepticism. You CAN hear a difference, I have no doubt. But your ears aren't better than mine, your brain is less critical. I refuse to listen to speakers when I know what I'm getting. It's stupid, because you enter into the retail market with your mind made up. When I bought my speakers I did a TRUE double blind test, I listented to around 7-8 pair of B&W speakers in a listening room. There is an OBVIOUS difference in the fullness of sound between bookshelf speakers and floorstanding speakers, so it came down to me listening to 3 pair of B&W bookshelf. He would start a song on the CD player and switch between the three. Anyway long story short, I picked the DM 602 over the CM 2. There is a SIGNIFIGANT price difference between the DM602 and the CM 2 (I think it could be almost $1000 difference). Now most people on this board would choose the CM 2 over the DM 602, and that's not because they sound better (That is purely subjective) but because they are more expensive, and more modern looking. This board is filled with people that believe something sounds better because it's expensive and they figure that because things are more expensive they MUST be better. It's not the case! Placebo effect! Your brain is tricking you. You will see the board FILLED with stories about people who claim to have done double blind tests and the more expensive product ALWAYS came out on top. SUSPICIOUS. Do actual double blinds in neutral test areas! Do NOT believe anything you read in audio magazines, their paychecks are paid by the people whose products they are reviewing, that is why you never see them test lower end equipment against hi-fi equipment and see the low-fi or mid-fi come out on top. ANY piece of expensive audio equipment that isn't COMPLETE garbage is going to sound good against itself. It will provide full sound that isn't "muddy" (MAJOR BUZZWORD) or "bright" (Yet ANOTHER BUZZWORD). I want to see double blind reviews where the review is written about the better sounding amp, or pre/pro, or reciever; and the brand name, model, and aesthetic comments are added only AFTER the reviewer hasn't been influenced by the weight (A CONSTANT comment in relation to quality in stereophile) or the shiny finish.
     
  20. Jeff Weight

    Jeff Weight Stunt Coordinator

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2001
    Messages:
    70
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Matty B, thank you for your post. I found it to be inspiring. You are correct, only a true double blind test will tell the sonic winner.

    It's rare to find a dealer that has the equipment or that will do this for us. So we are left with only our judgement, review, internet posts, and our memory to determin the best product. Any way you cut it, it can be frustraiting. Some of us spend months researching, while others take the most popular or cheaper route. In the end I believe we all end up with the product we deserve. While it may be the best to us in our price range, there will always be another product that somone finds to be better for the same or less price.

    I'm sorry if I've offended anyone on this board. That was never my intention.
     

Share This Page