Denon DVD 3800 questions (1 Viewer)

[Greg Johnson]

I have read that it is not a good practice to do bass management after time alignment (speaker distance settings)has been processed by your pre/pro. It did not work well at all in my system. Yours may be different all together.

The key statement there is: Yours may be different all together. Since your listening position is of equal distance to your speakers. Time alignment is not an issue. It is with my system because my fronts are 11 feet and rears are 6 feet from my listening position.
Any one care to take a stab at my question about the 3800 and an ICBM?
Greg Johnson

 

[Glenn Marshall]

Greg,

Really freaky! I just downloaded the manual for my ICBM which is do in on 10/1 and I just finished reading the manual for my 3800 do in late next week. I, also, will be running my 3800 thourgh my tap9000es for the 5.1 audio only then into the ICBM then into the amps. I have a c555es SACD chg'er feeding into the p9000es. The p9000es having two 5.1 inputs is why I'm using the ICBM btw the p9000es & amps. The video from my 3800 will be going to my tae9000es pre/pro via coxial. No ICBM in the loop.

I have read the comments from Outlaw on the question of time delay in combo with bass mgmt and, as other posts to this questions have replied, see what works for you.

The above is based on what I think and they say should happen. I will get back to you with real world results. Let me know hat's happening on your end.

Glenn

 

[Greg Johnson]

Glenn,
We have a lot of the same equipment. I just got a 555ES. I currently have 2 ICBM's. One between the 555 and the P9000 and the other between the Tosh DV5700 and the P9000.
When I tried the ICBM between the P9000 and my amp it sounded terrible to me. It was like I had a very slight reverb is the only way I can describe it. It could be because of the combination of dipole surrounds and the big difference in distance between my fronts and surrounds. That's pure speculation on my part though. That is how I ended up with 2 ICBM's.
I guess I will try the 3800 both with and without the ICBM. It would be nice if I don't need the ICBM since it would be nice to sell it and buy more DVD-Audio's and SACD's
Greg Johnson

 

[Doug_B]

I believe there is also an issue of volume levels when placing the ICBM between a pre/pro and amp. If calibration of the speakers results in level adjustment differences between the "small" speakers and the "large" speakers (and/or sub), the speakers/sub receiving the redirected bass will be playing that material at a volume level set for a different speaker. There have been discussions on this topic in another forum here (Receivers/Separates/Amps, I believe), and I'm sure you'll find a better explanation than I provide. I think there was also reference to a Sound and Vision article that shed light on this topic.

Doug

 

[Glenn Marshall]

Greg,

Doug's post addresses this issue. I, for one, will be reading up on this, but Outlaw also cautions you about creating a double bass mgmt circuit. It sounds like this is what you could be doing, along with the dipoles speakers.
When not using my ICBM for DVD-A or SACD, all the settings will be set to "bypass". This will allow any settings I have programed into my tae9000es pre/pro to pass through the ICBM for signals (DVD-V, CD Chg'ers, TV, Turner, etc.)
without introducing another sound mgmt program. I have a feeling that's what you are hearing in your system. I may
be off on this, since my ICBM isn't do in until Monday and
my 3800 in approx a week, but it just stands to reason, that
you are going to have problems trying to tweak an already tweaked signal then send it to dipoles & speakers at various listening positions.

Glenn

 

[Greg Johnson]

I picked up my 3800 yesterday and tried it with and without the ICBM. There is no doubt that in my system it sounded better without the ICBM. Sound from the rear speakers blended much better without the ICBM. So I guess the ICBM will be for sale.
I Don't know if I was trying to do too much at once since I also added a SVS black box. It took me over 2 hours of test tones to set levels between the Sony 555ES, the 3800 going into my P9000 and my Denon 3300 receiver that I'm using for a pre/pro. I'm still not satisfied yet. To match LFE levels I have the 3300 at -12db and it's still 3db hot. In fact using the 3300 test tones I had to set fronts and surrounds to 78db just to get 3db hot on the LFE channel.
By the time I got through the video calibration using Avia it was getting late so I only watched about 20 minutes of Monsters Inc. In comparison to the Sony 900v and the Tosh 5700 the picture seems much more 3D. I haven't done the firmware update yet so yes the chroma error was there. My dealer said he was having a hard time getting me the update since "everyone" at Denon is at CEDIA right now.
I listened to a couple songs from the George Benson "breezin" DVD-Audio. This is where the 3800 is in another league than than the Tosh 5700. I always thought SACD's sounded better than DVD-A in my system. I don't know now. I really need to take a couple days off work to figure it out. What I'm looking forward to doing is comparing which is the better redbook CD player between the 555ES and the 3800.
Greg Johnson

 

[Phil Nichols]

OK guys, I'm super-embarrashed to ask this but I'm tired of not knowing ........ are you ready for this?:

What in the world is a "Redbook CD"??????????????

Should I be trying some on my 3800?

 

[Navid]

Some of the dealers and distributors had the DVD-3800 sent back because of a recall. Although the Chroma bug was resolved sometime after July 26th, probably some distributors had older versions. Also, there was supposedly a batch of Denon DVD-3800 shipments that had lockup issues. So this might be why too.
If you get a Denon with the last 4 digits of the serial number reading 1936 or above than you are FINE. These are the newest units and do not have problems.. Especially if you buy from a dealer that has a fresh new shipment. I know for sure that recent shipments are good ones. They are absolutely incredible units. Most DVD players will not touch it.
This is probably why you will find your DVD-3800 and other Denon DVD-3800's out of stock at various locations.

 

[Ken Smith]

I just got the discs for the chroma bug yesterday from DenonJeff. He told me that units with a build date of Aug. 02 wouldn't need the fix, but so far none have shipped he said.

 

[Navid]

Who is DenonJeff??

Good Guys just got in a new shipment of the Denon DVD-3800.


They have been out of stock for some time.

They were aware of this too.. and they told me that these are newer fixed models.. I then called Denon to make sure.. And the Denon guy went into detail about the whole situation. He told me that Good Guys is selling the newer units.

He told me that a lot of unauthorized dealers are the ones that do not have newer models because Denon doesn't ship products to them.. So I don't know when or where you bought your DVD-3800 from.

 

[Levesque]

I just receive mine with a serial number of XXX2055, so the firmware upgrade is already done. Just got it tomorrow afternoon from my dealer, but I'm working 12 hours on thursday and friday, so it will wait until saturday night before installation in my system...:frowning:
I'm only hesitating because of my ICBM, should I sell it, or still use it with the 3800?
BTW, the DVD-3800 is build like a tank. Really sturdy. Nice build quality here.

 

[Levesque]

I just receive my DVD-3800 yesterday, with a serial number over 2000, and the firmware uggrade was done on it. It was coming directly from Denon in Toronto. Didn't had the time to test it tough (always working...). Will do it saturday evening.

 

[Phil Nichols]

You high-S/N guys are probably getting "Q" revision of the ESS decoder chip used in 3800's.

Please let us know if see any Y/C delay with these units. I guess AVIA has a test screen to measure this. (I don't have an AVIA cal DVD.)

 

[Levesque]

Sorry to ask,but what is this Q revision?? And what's this Y/C delay ?? I feel like a newbie...

 

[Robert A. Willis Jr.]

What in the world is a "Redbook CD"??????????????

Redbook is the specifications for CD's. I guess the original spec was published in a red book. Your everyday CD's and players should conform to the standard (not all players do. Some manufacturers "tweak" the standard a bit).

rw

 

[Phil Nichols]

Lévesque,
The August-onwards build date 3800's were supposed to have an adjusted ESS decoder in them that by design did not have the chroma bug - so no longer would a firmware update be required for this decoder. This was called the "Q" revision of the ESS integrated circuit decoder chip.
However, Kris Deering did a review of a "Q" revision containing Denon DVD-9000 and mentions an apparent video signal delay that seems to come in players with the updated decoder. The assumption is that 3800's with this same updated decoder will have this delay also. You may not even notice it in your unit, using your display, however.
Here is Kris's review of the 9000 in which he talks about the introduced (came with the "Q" ESS chip update) Y/C delay:
Link Removed

 

[Levesque]

Arrrghh!! It's impossible to win here! I've waited for the chroma-bug to be solved, and now I'm stuck with a Y/C delay...LOL... It's really a pity to see a company like Denon goofing around on a bug like this...Solve one, create another...Wow...

 

[Glenn Marshall]

Levesque,
For goodness sake, stop working so much, smell the roses and, most important, listen to your new baby. I'm in the uncomfortable position of either canceling or allowing the
3800 to come in. I need your feed-back on this very big problem of skip/lock-up. I see you're on AVS Forum, so you know the drill. Now, lets get to it this weekend and report back.
I hope you only have positive things to say. I want this player soooooo much, but 99.999 of my watching is of rental DVD's. I have a lowly rated Sony S530D that has had only 3 problem playing dics in the past 4 years. I view 3 movies a week. The 530 is feed into a Sony 53sh10 RPTV which has a built-in progressive display (DCR). Great picture!, so I'm not in a big hurry, although, I need the DVD-A.
Have a great weekend, and if you don't reply on Monday, there is always Tuesday.

 

[Levesque]

Paying for all those goodies needs a lot of working...Lol...Just kidding. It's because I want to retire at 40, maximum 45 years old! I'm in the process of selling one of my business, so it's keeping me really busy. But then I will be able to invest in the 6 numbers for my dream HT...I'm 32, and the way it's going now, I will be able to retire in around 10 years HEHEHE...

More seriously, I will set-up everything on Saturday evening, but wife is expecting this week-end!! Her date is the 29... So if I'm not at the hospital, I will try to listen to Toy Story, Monster Inc and Resident Evil. I got over 20 DVD-Audio, so I will try to analyze this part to. I got Avia, so I will try to do a good testing. Will keep you inform.
I'm really disappointed to learn of this Y/C delay bug, because I was really having high expectancy for this DVD-player. But I think it's probably another exemple of stereophile (videophile here) obsession for unatainable perfection...It's probably impossible to see this "bug" for a "Joe-six-pack" like me (LOL)...

 

[Phil Nichols]

Lévesque,
It's good that you most likely won't be retiring in 10 years - by then HD-DVD players MAY be just about bug free (if you're extremely lucky) and boy ........ wouldn't flawless HD-DVD be something to retire with!!
As for right now, I'd recommend either one of these two routes for you to take:
1) Buy a new 3800 and enjoy it - you'll probably never see the Y/C delay in it.
OR
2) Do like I did - buy a low serial number 3800 which therefore dosen't have the Y/C delay, install the anti-chroma-bug firmware which works perfectly, and hope beyond hope you don't get hit with the skip/freeze bug. Which by the way I don't have yet and I think is occuring in only a very few machines. Besides I think Denon engineering is working on it anyway.
The 3800 produces world-class images ...... trust me.