DarkSide of the Moon in DVD A? (1 Viewer)

[John-Miles]

ah but those debates are the most fun. Personally as I have said before I think the dvd-a is a better choice, the SACD may sound better, and well if they release it on both i will find out.

But as others ahve said the bottom line is those who dont have the disc already likely dont want it, or like me are just waiting for a hi res version. so you have to seriously ask yourself who is going to buy this disc again on sacd. There is pretty much only one market, owners of sacd player. because lets be honest the people who care about the difference in the cd layer now from 10 years ago, well they are the people who like us care enough to ahve gone out and bought SACD players. J6P is happy enough with whatever version of DSOTM he already has, but for every consumer who has a dvd-v player then a dvd-a release offers somethign new.

 

[KeithH]

SACD...DVD-Audio...SACD...DVD-Audio...SACD...DVD-Audio...SACD...DVD-Audio...SACD...DVD-Audio...SACD...DVD-Audio...SACD...DVD-Audio...SACD...DVD-Audio...SACD...DVD-Audio...
This is the great thing about having both formats. Just give me one or the other and I'll be happy (so long as the DVD-Audio release has a discrete stereo track).

 

[John-Miles]

Yes exactly Keith i suppose it dosent really matter to most of us cause lets face it we all have an addiction that will eventually lead to a universal player

 

[Phil A]

As I noted, the success of either format depends on software released that is popular with the public. DVD-A claims per http://www.dvdforum.org/promo-japanconf.htm
that it will have 1,500 titles available by the end of 2003 and 3,400 by the end of 2004. Hopefully they will push quality vs. stuff like the Silverline releases.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Average consumers don't buy a title because it's remastered. There is no compelling reason to purchase the Hybrid SACD since they will have no ability to access the surround mix.

What are you talking about? Of course you can access surround in the SACD format, it's part of the spec.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

that it will have 1,500 titles available by the end of 2003

Given that there are only 300 now, that seems a stretch to me, but if it means more good titles I wish them luck.
Given the four time relaunch of the format, I am very skeptical.
Like Keith says, I will believe it when I see it.

 

[Justin Lane]

With non-DVDA DVD players, you cannot get hi-rez sound according to Wayne. I just read that only 7% of DVD players have DVDA capability. Ooops!

This is true, but you can still get multi-channel on a standard DVD-A player in DD or DTS flavors (which the masses find quite acceptable). All of the quotes from the band lead me to believe multi-channel is going to be a driving force behind this release. With DVD-A a multi-channel version will be available to whoever owns a DVD player. With SACD to get the multi-channel you have to own a SACD player plain and simple. If this was going to be just stereo like the Stones discs, then a Hybrid SACD would make more sense. Seeing multichannel will indeed be included, DVD-A is the only way to go for wide spread exposure.

Lee,

Where have you seen SACD even mentioned for DSOTM? All I hear is rumors of DVD-A and SACD has not been mentioned in the slightest. I know you have brought up the fact that Deep Purple is coming out on SACD and DVD-A from EMI, but if you check the news at High Fidelity Review, only the DVD-A version of the Deep Purple Orchestrial disc has been released. The SACD has been delayed supposedly due to master problems on the SACD, but since the DVD-A has already come out (and presumably uses the same master without any problems) this leads me to believe the SACD might have been cancelled or fallen into some other problems. Do you know if there are actually any other EMI titles on SACD or has their only scheduled release (Deep Purple) yet to see the light of day?

J

 

[BillSherbon]

----------------
What happens if the Floyd fan has a two channel system that is not part of his TV/Home Theater?
----------------
DSOTM has been remastered and re-released many times on redbook CD. The compelling reason to buy yet another release of DSOTM is multichannel surround. Please compare the current number people who own multichannel SACD players versus those who own DVD players (either DVD-A or normal DVD).
For those *few* Floyd fans who do have a standalone CD player but no DVD player, there are still the numerous redbook CD remastered versions of DSOTM that has been released through the years.
A more relevent question is, what happens to the Floyd fan who wishes to listen to DSOTM in multichannel surround and does not own a multichannel SACD player?
Of course this is all just pointless debate if EMI doesn't release DSOTM in hi-res multichannel (sooner the better, and it would be great for all if it were both SACD and DVD-A).

 

[Al B. C]

Yep - Still yet another DVD-A thread that got hijacked and sidetracked.

Is anyone else getting tired of this but me?

 

[John Kotches]

Lee,
With respect to the payout, I have my sources that I won't divulge.
Now on to the fun stuff:

It shows your bias to DVD Audio to completely blow off my valid criticism about backward compatability. What happens if the Floyd fan has a two channel system that is not part of his TV/Home Theater?
If you are being fair in the debate, you have to give me this valid point.

It's not a valid point. You don't need a TV to listen to a DVD-A disc. All you need is a DVD-V or DVD-V/DVD-A player. Not exactly a stretch for an audiophile. Heck it could even be a DVD-V/SACD player used for SACD in a two channel system.
The goal is to deliver a surround experience to the largest possible audience. That means a DVD-A disc, with DVD-V for backwards compatibility to all DVD-V players.
Now, let's talk about your post about title counts. I will once again tell you, your count of 300 is wrong. Depending on whether you check the Link Removed or the High Fidelity Review list (431 titles) your numbers are in error by at least 30%. If you want to continue to weaken your position by continually listing incorrect title counts, feel free to do so.
By the end of 2001, Sony predicted there would be 1,000 SACD titles available. It's now nearly the end of 2002. If memory serves me correctly SACD is just now getting to that level. My point here, is that both sides haven't lived up to expectations or statements in terms of delivered title counts or delivered dates for titles.
I agree that 1,500 titles is not realistic to do by end CY 2003, requiring roughly 20 releases a week, and I just don't see that happening.
Regards,

 

[Lee Scoggins]

I agree that 1,500 titles is not realistic to do by end CY 2003, requiring roughly 20 releases a week, and I just don't see that happening.

This we agree on so it's a good place to end.
I am happy to see both formats thrive, but if the industry got behind one, I think we could get mainstream acceptance. I just prefer that DSD be chosen because it sounds more natural to my ears. But make no mistake, if DSOTM is only released on DVDA, I will still line up at Tower late Monday night to purchase it.
Given that ABKCO chose Super Audio in part due to CD backward compatability AND the release was a big hit for another group of aging (and quite good) British rockers AND EMI has a history of dual hi-rez releases, I do think it is very likely that Pink Floyd will be offered in Super Audio.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Do you know if there are actually any other EMI titles on SACD or has their only scheduled release (Deep Purple) yet to see the light of day?

Justin there have been many SACD releases from EMI and a new one from Belgium pop star (in Europe) Dana Winner is out on both formats.
Read: http://www.highfidelityreview.com/ne...umber=16120566
Another Deep Purple CD with SACD rumoured for 2003:
http://www.highfidelityreview.com/ne...umber=14832395
Also discussion on "Machine Head" by Deep Purple:
http://www.highfidelityreview.com/ne...umber=19024176

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Bob Ludwig has worked on many SACD and DVD-A projects including the recent Rolling Stones Remastered series. “I’m delighted to have the opportunity to talk at Tonmeistertagung,” commented Ludwig. “Right now the audio industry is at a tremendously exciting point in its development. In multi-channel Super Audio CD we have a recording system that has the potential to rejuvenate our industry on a global scale. The challenge is that in producing multi-channel DSD, we are sailing through uncharted territory. There is no rule book, we have to find new ways of exploiting this fantastic technology – that is what is so exciting and what Ronald, Simon and myself focused on in our workshop.”

John,
This is what Bob Ludwig said about Super Audio at the recent engineer's consortium in Hanover. I guess we know how much he likes the format.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

About the choice of Super Audio for Stones releases:

“The SACD is the Rosetta Stone that represents the ultimate quality, and the SBMD can downsample from it to almost anything in the PCM world,” says Ludwig. “It's the best downsampler I've heard.”

The whole story is very well done by Mix Magazine and found here:
http://mixonline.com/ar/audio_satisfaction/index.htm
Seems like ABKCO chose DSD on its own merits. Maybe Sony made some Super Audio project team members available to grease the skids but there is no mention of any cash payments here.

 

[Al B. C]

Hey - Lee is actually holding a conversation with himself!

 

[Justin Lane]

Another Deep Purple CD with SACD rumoured for 2003:
http://www.highfidelityreview.com/n...number=14832395

Lee,
Did you actually read the title of that announcement. It says "Deep Purple ‘Total Abandon’ Coming to DVD-Audio" not SACD!!!! The article specifically says nothing about it coming out on SACD and as a matter of fact it specifically mentions that the other announced Deep Purple SACD, Concerto for Group and Orchestra has yet to see the light of day. So as of right now there is zero Deep Purple on SACD, and new announcements. Making an argument for SACD that is a link to a DVD-A announcement does not make your point look very good.
J

 

[Justin Lane]

. I still don't understand why DVDA surround is better than SACD surround? They both work and the number of playback devices is likely very close. Why would DVDA offer any advantage here?

Lee,
Let me lay this out for you one last time becuase you keep missing the point for some reason. All DVD-A are playable on any DVD player, no matter if it is a DVD-V or DVD-A component. The contents on a DVD-A can be played in either Hi-res multi-channel (DVD-A players only) or DD/DTS multi-channel (any DVD player in the world).
This means a DVD-A DSOTM disc will be able to provide a multi-channel mix in some form to every single DVD player in the entire world.
Here is a simple relationship:
Every DVD player in the world >>> every SACD multichannel player
I hope this clears up this issue.
J

 

[Lee Scoggins]

This means a DVD-A DSOTM disc will be able to provide a multi-channel mix in some form to every single DVD player in the entire world.

:rolleyes
Then why not come out and say this? What John said did not state this was an issue of the number of DVD video players so it was far from obvious for me to see what the thought process was here since both formats offer surround.
There is another problem here - how many DVD players are hooked up to all five channels? My guess is just a fraction.
My money remains on Super Audio - the format that allows backward compatability.
The official DVDA team is also looking at ways to add this so there must be some value in it!

 

[Justin Lane]

The album is scheduled for release in Europe on September 30, 2002 in a variety of formats including conventional CD, DVD Video, Hybrid Layer Multichannel SACD (EMI UK 7243-541009-2) and Multichannel DVD-A (EMI UK 7243-541012-9).

Machine Head has been out on DVD-A for quite some time now. The above quote from your message refers to Concerto for Group and Orchestra NOT MACHINE HEAD. This means the title, Concerto for Group and Orchestra , has been DELAYED on SACD not newly announced. Why did you use a quote for another album as proof that Machine Head is coming out on SACD?????
J

 

[Michael St. Clair]

As I said before, I'd love to see DSotM released in both formats. Hell, release everything in both formats, then one format will succeed based on the merits of the format and not whichever one has the best financial clout with the record lables.
But relasing DSotM [/b]only[/b] on SACD doesn't make a damned bit of sense. It would be downright moronic.
Why? Because the band wants people to hear DSotM in surround...they have made this quite clear since 1973. And there are a ton of Pink Floyd fans with DVD setups...and many of those at least have 5.1, even if it is just 'in a box'.
Most Pink Floyd fans with DVD players aren't going to run out and do a $500+ upgrade (including bass management) to hear the surround DSotM in either high-res surround format, they are going to settle for DTS/DD surround.
So if Floyd wants the fans to hear DsoTM in surround, they release it in DVD-A and SACD, or they release it in DVD-A alone. But they sure as hell don't release it in SACD alone! The only reason to do that is to sell SACD players, not to get the music to the fans, most of which are not 'audiophiles' of the golden-eared variety.
As far as needing a stereo mix for traveling to the grocery store :rolleyes, every Floyd fan already has a version of the album that sounds fine in a fucking car! Good lord, even the quietest car still images like crap.
The objective of a stereo-only Stones reissue where the previous disc sounded like crap is very different from a Floyd reissue where surround is the key and the last disc sounded pretty damned good (limitations of Redbook and the source tapes notwithstanding).