Convergence Question on Sony KP-57WS520

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Dave H, Dec 21, 2004.

  1. Dave H

    Dave H Producer

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    I just bought a new Sony KP-57WS520.

    I put in Avia and as to be expected, the convergence is pretty bad.

    Now, this Sony model has a function in the User settings where you can tweak blue/red. However, it doesn't save it! Is this normal? I tweaked it last night --- checked it today and everything reverted back to the way it was. Also, using the Flash Focus "resets" it to this way, as well. It seems the convegence in the User settings is useless. Or, is there something wrong here?

    I am guessing I will just have to do it the old-fashioned way and go into the service menu so I can tweak all three colors.
     
  2. Dave H

    Dave H Producer

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    Taking a closer look at images, etc., there is ghosting happening around images. This is noticable on Avia, as well.

    Do I have a bad set?
     
  3. Marvin Richardson

    Marvin Richardson Supporting Actor

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    Wish I could help you, seeing as how I just bought the same set, but I don't have the faintest idea what convergence means. All I know is that my untrained eye loves this set. I've never noticed that amount of detail in a movie before.
    I watch the burly brawl from The Matrix Reloaded and the asteroid field chase from Empire tonight...and wow.
    I ran through the basic calibrations on Avia. I could definitely tell a difference.
     
  4. Dave H

    Dave H Producer

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    Marvin,

    Do me a favor. Using Avia, can you go to the setting where you adjust white level or contrast? There are two lines that run vertically --- from top to bottom -- on the right and left sides of the screen. Do you notice a slight "ghost" around each of these near the bottom parts? You may also see this on the Sharpness adjustment screen. Thanks.
     
  5. Dave H

    Dave H Producer

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    I just spoke with Sony. I was told to return the TV if resetting the options doesn't work. (Holding reset button and power button down at same time)
     
  6. Marvin Richardson

    Marvin Richardson Supporting Actor

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    Nope, there is no ghosting on either of those screens. Sounds like you got a bad one. Sorry to hear that. Hopefully if you get it replaced you'll be alright.
     
  7. Dave H

    Dave H Producer

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    The want to send a tech guy out first to confirm there is a problem before replacing it. If he can't fix it on the spot, I'm told they will replace it instead of making me wait for a part to come in, etc. Supposedly, they can't send a defective TV back until it's been inspected -- Sony's policy. I don't believe it, but that's what they are telling me. The tech guy is coming out tomorrow --- however, we are supposed to get over 6" of snow tomorrow, so who knows.
     
  8. Marvin Richardson

    Marvin Richardson Supporting Actor

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    Thank God I live in Arizona now instead of where I use to live...sunny South Dakota!
    Arizona: 58 degrees, feels like 58 degrees, fair skies
    South Dakota: 7 degrees, feels like -4 degrees, fair skies
     
  9. Dave H

    Dave H Producer

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    Interesting note here about my problem. At Home Theater Spot, they are saying the convergence settings in the user menu do not save -- as it's a glitch.

    Also, the ringing or ghosting is a common issue.

    Hmmmmm.
     
  10. Marvin Richardson

    Marvin Richardson Supporting Actor

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    Well Dave, I guess you must have gotten a bad unit. I ran the convergance test tonight, and there were only 2 that I had to adjust, and they were barely off. Either I got lucky or I just don't know what I'm doing.[​IMG] Either way I couldn't be happier with my purchase.
    So far the only thing I can't get to work is closed captions. I've tried setting it in the DVR (Sci Atl Explorer 8300 HD) and on the display, and neither works. Oh well, small potatoes.
     
  11. Shane Martin

    Shane Martin Producer

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    Bummer Dave [​IMG]

    I hope it all works out for you in the end.

    The settings should save but they might drift over time. Nothing big though but I can say I've adjusted mine out of the box and a touch up a month later and haven't touched them in 6 months.
     
  12. Dave H

    Dave H Producer

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    Well, after reading more about Sonys on the Home Theater Spot Forum, the issues I am referring to are normal. The ghosting is evidently occuring on all units if you look closely. Your TV settings play a role as to your ability to see it. (Higher contrast seems to hide it, for example). Standard cable sources show it more than DVD, for example. Putting your TV in VIVID mode almost eliminates it. However, I by no means recommend using VIVID mode for anything.

    Just to make sure, I looked at two models of my TV at Circuit City. Sure enough, the ghosting was there.

    In addition, I had the tech guy come out this morning to still take a look. Sure enough, he said it was normal. He did tweak my convergence in the service menu. However, this is something I am going to tweak even more. In fact, I just ordered the service manual.

    Ghosting appears to be the nature of CRT. Weird thing is, I didn't notice it on my 5 year old 61" Sony 4X3. It also occurs on other models such as Toshiba, Mits, etc.

    Regarding the convergence not saving when in the user settings --- this is a bug and is a problem on all the models in this series. I just can't believe Sony hasn't fixed it. One could spend hours converging only to have their work wasted.
     
  13. Shane Martin

    Shane Martin Producer

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    Wierd I haven't seen it on my set but perhaps I'm lucky in that regard.

    Hopefully all the tweaking and perhaps an ISF job on it will work itself out in the end.
     
  14. Marvin Richardson

    Marvin Richardson Supporting Actor

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    Well I certainly haven't seen anything, so I guess I'll be happy my eyes aren't as good at seeing this stuff. I've been watching mostly HD and DVDs and a little Xbox. Watched Shaun of the Dead last night and it was being in my own little theater. Fun movie and I love this new TV.
     
  15. Dave H

    Dave H Producer

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    Marvin,

    It's one of those things that most people won't even notice --- only the videophile type or those looking for it. Also, it's less noticable on higher quality signals such as HD.

    Shane,

    Over at Home Theater Spot, there is a Mits. forum --- there have been threads about it there.

    Again, if you don't see it, you're lucky. [​IMG] I think it's similar to edge enhancement on DVDs. Some people are more sensitive to it than others.

    I will be getting my set ISF'd in a few weeks and I will tweak this set to the max. I'm going to see if there is anything that can be done (I doubt it though). I know in the Mits forum, some ISF tech came up with a fix for the Mits. Evidently, it involved replacing some circuitry.

    Overall, I have to agree, that the picture on this set is outstanding. I have "tested" about 10 movies and I am blown away. I just can't wait to get it ISF'd and buy a good progressive scan player....then it's really going to be something.

    (Speaking of players, I am leaning toward the Sony 975.)
     
  16. Marvin Richardson

    Marvin Richardson Supporting Actor

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    Dave,
    I believe the Sony 975 has the chroma bug and a few other problems, according the Secrets of Hi-Fi shootout: http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/cgi-b...%20(Component)
    Of course, all but the $1200 Denon 3910 and $2000 Denon 5900 have problems of one kind or another. And I don't know about you, but I'm not spending as much as I did on my tv on a DVD player. I'm considering the Panasonic S97S if I decide to go upconverting or the Denon 2815 ($470), 1815 ($300), the Sony NC875 ($150) or the the Yamaha 750 ($300) if I decide to go the changer route. So basically I haven't narrowed it down at all. [​IMG]
     
  17. Dave H

    Dave H Producer

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    Marvin,

    I agree about the price. My limit is about $300.00 I figure within two years, or maybe three, I will probably be buying some true HD unit by then.

    A bit of advice to save you some frustration.

    Avoid any DVD player you might use for upscaling that has a Farjouda processor for our TV. It will produce macroblocking, which is ugly...it's major artifacting. I just tried out the Toshiba DVD/VHS combo player that has it and macroblocking was very obvious and ugly. Evidently this processor is the cause of it when the player is upscaled. I *believe* the Denons and the Panasonic S97 use this processor. However, if you just decide to go 480P with component, it won't be an issue.

    Regarding the Sony 975, according to the review, is an excellent component player. They said it failed only the one chroma test --- 4:2:0 ICP test --- not sure how crucial that is or not.

    Now this player does upscale and doesn't use the Farajouda chip, so macroblocking won't be an issue. However, as an upscaler, it causes some potential other issues. It seems better as a component player than anything.

    I also hear that upscaling has less of an effect on TVs like ours. I am really just aiming for the best 480P player with component at this point --- unless I can use my HDMI connection without issues.

    I guess no TV or player is perfect. [​IMG]
     
  18. Marvin Richardson

    Marvin Richardson Supporting Actor

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    Dave,
    What benefit, if any, is there in getting the Sony DVP-NS975V at $300 over getting the Sony DVP-NS775V at $130 if you aren't going to use upscaling/HDMI?
    Buying a DVD player is the most frustrating thing I've ever encountered in buying home theater equipment. It seems like every unit has something wrong with it. Why can't they just make one that does everything well and not charge $2000 for it?
    I'd really like to get the Sony DVP-NC875V ($150) 5-disc changer or even the Sony DVP-CX985V ($400) 400-disc changer, but not at the expense of quality.
    I guess the S97S is out then after reading about the macroblocking. I swear it sometimes seems like they're making this stuff up.
    Part of me thinks I should just buy a 5-disc player, because I'm obviously not got a critical enough eye to note any problems. Of course, I just got the display, so who knows...in 6 months I might start noticing problems.
     
  19. Dave H

    Dave H Producer

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    Marvin,

    The "guts" of the 975 are better than the 775 --- this from the guys at the AVS forum and the shootout review. The shootout reviewer evidently tested what was in the 775 on another model (which number slips me) and it didn't score too well. If I get the 975, I will just use it for component...though I might player with the upscaler for kicks. On many displays, the 975 upscaler is depressing the color green. However, many Sony Tv owners don't seem to be seeing this. Is it possible Sony's DVD players are made more for their own displays? I think it's plausible.

    I agree it's a pain. Every DVD player gets good and bad ratings it seems.

    I can tell you macroblocking is absolutely unacceptable to me. So for now, Farajouda in an upscaler is one less option for me -- which is a good thing --- as I am using process of elimination here. lol. Using Farjouda in component will cause no problems though.
     
  20. Steve Schaffer

    Steve Schaffer Producer

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    Haven't seen macroblocking on my Zenith DVB-318 with Faroudja, but it's connected via component.

    I've owned several players, specifically a couple of JVCs that Secrets didn't rate very highly--they weren't too happy about the Zenith for that matter. I've owned Pannys they loved and imho they weren't as good looking as some of the JVCs and Sonys they downrated for 99% of my dvds.
    They concentrate on stuff you can't even detect with the naked eye.

    What I've found is that most of the stuff they downrate for is really torture test poorly mastered dvds, and they are way picky about the tiniest little thing.

    I quit worrying about Secrets ratings for the most part. They are imho beyond the pale as far as how picky they are and the trivial crap they condemn a player for. They remind me of the audiophile types who get all cranked up over gourmet cables and such.

    Using them as gospel in picking a dvd player is silly in the real world. I'd avoid anything they rated at the very bottom, but have really enjoyed a few players thay they regarded as middling at best more than some they rated quite highly.

    Maybe some of the stuff they fuss about so much is actually visible on a 100 inch screen with a fixed pixel FP, but on a sub-65" crt based rptv it just isn't worth stressing over.
     

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