Confusing endings (1 Viewer)

[Jefe Noche]

I've got to disagree that there are "holes" in The Sixth Sense. I think it's all pretty well explained when Cole says: "They only see what they want to see". Using your arguments: How can he walk around not noticing he has a hole in him? How can he not know he is dead?
I think the movie's superb. In order to fully enjoy it you have to assume that ghosts do not operate on the same "plane" as humans. In other words, the laws of physics do not apply.
I like to look at The Sixth Sense this way:
We see EVERYTHING that Malcomb experiences as a ghost. In other words, he moves in and out of our reality.
In regards to time travel & 12 Monkeys: I agree with the above opinions and I think I can explain them in "simple terms":
0% free will and 100% fate

 

[Grant B]

So let me get this straight??

Cole has a flashback and ends up on the titantic with the old lady who takes the serum back to the future and sees dead people riding on Rosebud....Correct?

sorry couldn't resist that

 

[Sean Bryan]

Dick,
You seem to be assuming that existance and the passage of time for a "ghost" would/should be the same as for someone who is alive. Like a ghost should experience and be aware of the passing of every minute of every day like we do. That's kind of like saying, "Where did he sleep?" "What about eating and taking showers, changing clothes, going to the bathroom, etc...?" The answer would be that he DOESN'T do those things and never even gives it any thought that he should. A part of his "mind" just fills in the blanks or conviently avoids realizing that he never does this stuff, like a dream.
When I use my imagination and try to think what it might be like to be a ghost (if even possible), I tend to think that my existance would more like the reality that I experience in a dream state as opposed to my waking life. I wouldn't experience every minute of every day like when I was alive, but I would sort of "hop" from moment to moment as things happened, and would never focus on what happend right before that moment, like a dream. In a dream, you might find yourself in a strange/but familiar house. You start walking around, reacting to things, looking for this, avoiding things, whatever....you hardly ever remember how you got to that house. Who drove you? Did you drive? Do you remember walking up the sidewalk, opening the door and going inside? No. And those things don't matter, you just experience and react to things in the dream, and then the dream shifts to something else completley different, and you just keep plugging along, not thinking anyhting is odd. (Now, sometimes you might think things are weird or figure out you are dreaming, which is always cool and fun, but most of the time you, or at least I, don't realize you're dreaming.)
I think that existance for a ghost would be something like what we experience dreams. So, Dr. Crowe probably became aware that he was in that room and in that chair and began reacting in "real time" just as Cole opened the door and walked in. The disjointed time/dream-like perception of his ghostly existance probably just filled in the blanks (thinking he has had a conversation with Cole's mom), or more likely his mind just started at that point in real time (not looking back, like in a dream) and he never really thought back to the actual conversation or how he got into the house, becasue he never had one and he wasn't let in.
I think it's kinda cool that when he finally starts looking at his memories and figures things out, it's kind of like the experience of realizing that you are/have been dreaming. Cool and freaky!
So what you seem to be pointing out as "cheating" or plot holes is actually a problem with you not letting yourself think of what it would actually be like to BE a ghost and how it would be different from being alive and not with the script/directing. No offence.
12 MONKEYS/ Time travel.
Yep. Like I said, one theory is that you couldn't change the past. Either the LOOP or predestination paradox would mean that everything that has happened and ever will happen is all set/fate, OR that actually changing the past and making things happen in a way that they originally didn't (the free-will/no fate prespective) would create an alternate timeline which would actually be different, but the original time line also continues unchanged. So even though things are changed, they aren't.
Cole's experience was clearly the predestination/LOOP thing. Things played out as they always have. One could also argue that the "future scientist" finding the "plague starter" and getting the virus sample was also something that was always ment to happen. That lady was always on the plane and observed the start of the pandemic (even though she didn't cause it, she was there). This would go along with my example of how you could use time travel (to the past) to help yourself in the the present, but not by changing the past.
The situation would go that I use time travel to plant a bomb in the past in a place that will eventually be fortified by my current enemy and cannot presently be attacked by missiles. The timer is set to detonate after I leave (present time), so I don't change anything in the past. It could be argued that I was always ment to travel to the past and plant the bomb, and the bomb is actually there even before I leave, but it won't really be there if I don't travel back and put it there. You know, your basic predestination/LOOP. The Idea would be that, if done right, no one would know that the bomb was there, so I couldn't really be sure it's there before I leave. You still have to go. The mission could fail after all. The machine might not work, etc..., and it definitely won't be there if you don't try. If it works, it has already worked. But we can't know that until I try. So if it works, it was always ment to work, etc, etc... You could say that you did use time travel to change things (in a sense), or that destiny/fate dictated that it all happened that way even though you think it's all chance and free will.
I'd love to turn that into a screenplay.

 

[Rob Willey]

I like movies where the end is left somewhat ambiguous ala Titanic, but I detest just plain dopey endings. As far as I know, nobody can explain the end of the Planet of the Apes remake.
Rob

 

[Ryan L B]

Since I never saw POTA remake, please don't spoil it even with spoiler tags. I never saw The Others but I have heard that the ending is likeThe sixth Sense. Is this true

 

[Eric Walsh]

Back to 12 Monkeys. One thing that wasn't mentioned....

If you notice in one of the flashbacks of the airport scene the long red haired man is in fact Brad Pitt. This only happens once and I forget at what time in the movie this occurs. But for me this did not fit with my understanding of the film. Are we to believe that in one of the times that this same scene has occured it was Brad Pitt who got ahold of the virus and did more than just unleash a few animals? Or are we supposed to believe that reality changes from preceptions and since maybe Cole thought Brad Pitt did it his memory changed of that event that occured during his childhood?


I hope all that made sense.

Thanks for your input.

-Eric

 

[Danny R]

Ryan. Yes, the endings are simular. But what's cool about The Others is that:
The ghosts are haunted by the living as much as the living are haunted by the ghosts, with neither fully aware of the other.
In the Blair Witch it was Mike in the basement. Josh wasn't even apart of the filming at the time, he went home after he disappeared.
Went home? Went dead you mean. It was his teeth that our heroine finds the next morning.
BTW, Mike is made to stand in the corner... the same modus operandi that Justin Parr used 60 years earlier when he abducted and killed several Burkittsville children.

 

[paul o'donnell]

So let me get this straight??
Cole has a flashback and ends up on the titantic with the old lady who takes the serum back to the future and sees dead people riding on Rosebud....Correct?

 

[Eric Walsh]

Paul,
I think what you said is accurate and is my general understanding of why that scene occurs but it just seems like sort of a let down for me....I want there to be more to it than that.
-Eric

 

[paul o'donnell]

hehe. I think it plays quite well with the viewer relating to the questions being posed about Cole's sanity throughout the film.

 

[JonZ]

TSpringett mentioned Mulholland Drive. Ive done alot of thinking about that movie. As we all know that was supposed to be a pilot and they decided to release it as a film. Lynch spent almost 2 hours setting everything up that was supposed to be answered in who knows how many 1 hour episodes. Instead he had to wrap it up in 20 minutes. I think if this did go to television, it would have played out much more "straightforward" - the wierdness at the end was a result of having to conclude the thing with not much time left.I think the ending provided was not what was original intended(obviously).But I basically think......

That Diane(Naomi Watts)is having a affair with and was in love with Camilla(Laura Harring)and out of jealousy had her killed - everything before Rita opens the Black Box was a dream/fantasy.The dream ended when reality and the fantasy meet - when Betty and Rita sleep together

There are some loose ends that couldnt be tied up becuase of time constraintsThe Cowboy,The Hitmans first scene,Why EXACTLY did the Mysterious Dwarf(name escapes me right now)want Camilla to get the part in the movie - actually this isnt really THAT important,but it was interesting and I would have liked to have seen more. Also the guy in the diner talking about the dream and he sees the Bum(who has the Black Box) - Is he going to go through a similar experience as Diane?

Thats what I got from it anyway. There were some truly beautiful moments in this film.

 

[BrentPollard]

Is there a way to read the blacked out spoiler sections? I have seen all the movies that have been mentioned in this thread and find all these black blocks very frustrating as I find it impossible to understand what most of you are talking about, even having seen these movies. :frowning:

 

[JonZ]

Just click inside the black box,hold down your mouse key and drag the mouse foward and down to the end of the black bars.

 

[BrentPollard]

Thank you very much. Now I may actually be able to voice an opinion.

 

[paul o'donnell]

hehe, just picturing Brent going through the thread, "God Damn Black spoiler bars" that had to be very annoying. Now you've got a lot of reading to do

 

[Ryan L B]

When I get some money, I will buy The sixth sense vista series, AI widescreen, the others, and 12 monkeys to see if I understand the endings after a second viewing.

 

[chris winters]

Another thing about 12 monkeys that i dont think was mentioned. At least as i remember. When Bruce Willis is trying to stop the villian getting through security with the virus, he in fact allows him to get away and through the gate by causing such a distraction. The guards and people all run wild and the villian goes through the gate without a hitch. So he inadvertatly allows the catastaphe that he was trying to prevent to occur. Just what i remeber from watching it, adds to the paradox loop nature of the plot.

 

[chris winters]

Also the movie is a bit dates as our countries new post 911 airport security would have surely caught the guy??? at least we hope so.

 

[ScottH]

As far as I know, nobody can explain the end of the Planet of the Apes remake.

Yes, I would love it if someone could explain this one to me...

 

[Ryan L B]

Check this site for the Planet of the Apes Ending Link Removed