Colorization: a possible solution to unreleased B/W shows? (1 Viewer)

[SD_Brian]

Sadly, this is already being done. Many explicit albums are edited so that Wal-Mart will sell them. It's odd that Wal-Mart will sell R-Rated or Unrated DVD's yet draws the line at music that contains the F-word.

 

[HenryDuBrow]

How about colorization of b/w videotaped shows, is that possible? I would imagine it'd have to be copied and transferred to film first?

 

[SD_Brian]

Since the process is done digitally and not photochemically, I doubt they would have to transfer video to film in order to bastardize...er, I mean colorize it. If anything, it would require a digitizing of the analog video source.

 

[Tom_S]

As long as the originals are available I don't see the harm.

I would love to see the first 2 season of "The Adventures of Superman" colorized. Superman originated in the colorful medium of comic books. Any Tv series were the Producers changed over into color is fair game. Clearly they thought something was lacking or they never would have made the expensive shift to color.

Maybe if the show is ever released in Blue Ray or HD-DVD. If not the whole series a few samples like with the Lucy dream sequence. The Origin of Superman in the first episode "Superman of Earth" and the classic "Panic in the Sky" would be perfect candidates.

 

[BobO'Link]

Because of the current semi-discussion of colorization in the "What's the last TV DVD you bought?" thread I'm bumping this one. There are many good arguments here against rampant colorization of product and some valid statements as to *why* certain product may have been produced in BW instead of color. For most BW TV programs it was often one of cost as color stock was significantly more expensive than BW and there wasn't much forward vision of many of these programs surviving a decade, much less still being viewed 50 years later.


In spite of being undewhelmed by the colorization process and colorized product I'd seen I purchased the colorized seasons of Bewitched over the BW when it came out thinking I would simply turn the color "off" if it didn't appeal to me. As several here have said, that really doesn't work well. Unlike a couple of posters here I could immediately tell the episodes were colorized and don't think they were done all that well (look at mouths/teeth, certain crossfades, fast pans, and fade to black scenes for excellent examples where the process fails either partially or completely). That's when I turned off the color and discovered they didn't stay 100% faithful to the original BW palet when making color choices (i.e. selecting a color that returns the same hue in BW as does the original BW print). I still need to upgrade my S1 & S2 sets, as well as S1 of I Dream of Jeannie, to BW and correct my initial faux pas.


I found the same issues in Disney's Zorro colorized releases. That pretty much told me all those series were done with a similar/identical process. I was fortunately able to upgrade my Zorro seasons when Disney did the right thing and re-released them in the BW versions.


While I've viewed a few of the Legend colorization products (mainly the Harryhausen films) I watched them once out of curiosity and since that time only view them in BW - actually the non-colorized copies I had before purchasing the "upgraded" colorized versions.


One thing I've posted in several threads is that once, while viewing some Three Stooges shorts, my oldest granddaughter (7 at the time) looked at me and said "These would be funnier if they were in color" hardly getting the words out she was laughing so hard! My grandson quickly agreed. I stopped the disc and gave her and her brother a "lecture" about "funny is funny, good is good, no matter if something is in color or BW" and that "The Three Stooges are good *and* funny" reminding them they'd been about to hurt themselves laughing. I'd really thought my grandson had already figured that out on his own as he'd been watching episodes of I Love Lucy and Leave it to Beaver never once complaining about them being in BW. He was enjoying the programs too much and never commented about them being in BW. They no longer make a distinction.


I recently converted a co-worker. She's a *huge* horror fan but had never really seen any pre-60s "classic" horror films. She's in her late 20s and professed to "not liking BW movies" at all. I loaned her copies of Invasion of the Body Snatchers and The Day the Earth Stood Still with a edict to watch fully before making a judgement. Those two films converted her and changed her thinking about BW vs. color films. Since then I've loaned her even more BW horror films as well as a few BW screwball comedy and a couple of noir films. So far the only BW films she's said she dodn't like is Lugosi's White Zombie, which is admittedly somewhat slow, mainly for genre/Lugosi enthusiasts, and also one I'd not loaned her (I generally try to stay within her overall tastes to be safe), and George Romero's Night of the Living Dead (the original - also a somewhat difficult to get across to others type film plus she doesn't like most Zombie films).


I also mentioned in that other thread that I'd first seen The Exorcist in glorious BW on my TV (young college student and couldn't afford a color set). To this day I believe the film is more horrific and disturbing in BW than in color. After a single viewing in color I now turn the color off every time I play the disc.


So... With all that said I can safely state that I'm 100% against colorization *unless* doing so preserves a BW copy of the film and the company doing the colorization makes it, too, available for consumption. Legend is doing it right - not necessarily colorization, although theirs *is* the best I've seen to date, but that their colorization work is preserving and making available good BW copies of films which might otherwise be "lost."

 

[bmasters9]

I'd really thought my grandson had already figured that out on his own as he'd been watching episodes of I Love Lucy and Leave it to Beaver never once complaining about them being in BW. He was enjoying the programs too much and never commented about them being in BW.

My nephew in Alabama also never said a word about I Love Lucy being B/W. He just enjoyed it for what it was.

 

[Kyrsten Brad]

Because of the current semi-discussion of colorization in the "What's the last TV DVD you bought?" thread I'm bumping this one. There are many good arguments here against rampant colorization of product and some valid statements as to *why* certain product may have been produced in BW instead of color. For most BW TV programs it was often one of cost as color stock was significantly more expensive than BW and there wasn't much forward vision of many of these programs surviving a decade, much less still being viewed 50 years later.


In spite of being undewhelmed by the colorization process and colorized product I'd seen I purchased the colorized seasons of Bewitched over the BW when it came out thinking I would simply turn the color "off" if it didn't appeal to me. As several here have said, that really doesn't work well. Unlike a couple of posters here I could immediately tell the episodes were colorized and don't think they were done all that well (look at mouths/teeth, certain crossfades, fast pans, and fade to black scenes for excellent examples where the process fails either partially or completely). That's when I turned off the color and discovered they didn't stay 100% faithful to the original BW palet when making color choices (i.e. selecting a color that returns the same hue in BW as does the original BW print). I still need to upgrade my S1 & S2 sets, as well as S1 of I Dream of Jeannie, to BW and correct my initial faux pas.


I found the same issues in Disney's Zorro colorized releases. That pretty much told me all those series were done with a similar/identical process. I was fortunately able to upgrade my Zorro seasons when Disney did the right thing and re-released them in the BW versions.


While I've viewed a few of the Legend colorization products (mainly the Harryhausen films) I watched them once out of curiosity and since that time only view them in BW - actually the non-colorized copies I had before purchasing the "upgraded" colorized versions.


One thing I've posted in several threads is that once, while viewing some Three Stooges shorts, my oldest granddaughter (7 at the time) looked at me and said "These would be funnier if they were in color" hardly getting the words out she was laughing so hard! My grandson quickly agreed. I stopped the disc and gave her and her brother a "lecture" about "funny is funny, good is good, no matter if something is in color or BW" and that "The Three Stooges are good *and* funny" reminding them they'd been about to hurt themselves laughing. I'd really thought my grandson had already figured that out on his own as he'd been watching episodes of I Love Lucy and Leave it to Beaver never once complaining about them being in BW. He was enjoying the programs too much and never commented about them being in BW. They no longer make a distinction.


I recently converted a co-worker. She's a *huge* horror fan but had never really seen any pre-60s "classic" horror films. She's in her late 20s and professed to "not liking BW movies" at all. I loaned her copies of Invasion of the Body Snatchers and The Day the Earth Stood Still with a edict to watch fully before making a judgement. Those two films converted her and changed her thinking about BW vs. color films. Since then I've loaned her even more BW horror films as well as a few BW screwball comedy and a couple of noir films. So far the only BW films she's said she dodn't like is Lugosi's White Zombie, which is admittedly somewhat slow, mainly for genre/Lugosi enthusiasts, and also one I'd not loaned her (I generally try to stay within her overall tastes to be safe), and George Romero's Night of the Living Dead (the original - also a somewhat difficult to get across to others type film plus she doesn't like most Zombie films).


I also mentioned in that other thread that I'd first seen The Exorcist in glorious BW on my TV (young college student and couldn't afford a color set). To this day I believe the film is more horrific and disturbing in BW than in color. After a single viewing in color I now turn the color off every time I play the disc.


So... With all that said I can safely state that I'm 100% against colorization *unless* doing so preserves a BW copy of the film and the company doing the colorization makes it, too, available for consumption. Legend is doing it right - not necessarily colorization, although theirs *is* the best I've seen to date, but that their colorization work is preserving and making available good BW copies of films which might otherwise be "lost."

BobO'Link, you've summed the colorization situation up nicely, especially your last paragraph.


I, the Film Colorization Heretic fully agree that if any B&W movie /TV show is colorized, the original pristine BW version must be offered right alongside. West Wing Studios did this in offering the colorized Three Stooges Shorts (I have all of those DVDs and love em).


That and my other main point is that colorization is a good thing for old TV shows which started out in B&W and made the (mandatory) switch to color in 1965. Especially considering that some of the TV show creators/producers wanted to do their first seasons in color but were prevented from doing so (Sidney Sheldon, I Dream Of Jeannie).


I could think of more on this topic but I'd be repeating what I wrote in the other thread. But I wouldn't mind discussing this further if anyone has a mind to.

 

[Kyrsten Brad]

More information on Legend Studios (from their own website):


"Legend Films is the pioneer and recognized leader in the restoration and colorization of classic black-and-white movies. The key to our success is a patented, cost-effective technology that has changed the way the world looks at classic films. Resulting from years of research and development, this proprietary technology – along with our unparalleled design and production expertise – makes Legend Films the only choice for bringing the magic of classic cinema to a new generation of viewers. We're also proud to offer our state-of-the-art restoration and colorization technology services to movie studios, advertising agencies and music video producers."


"
WHY COLOR?

Legend Films is building a diverse, copyrighted classic film library by acquiring black-and-white movies for restoration and colorization. We also partner with major studios to colorize their classic film libraries. Restoration and colorization of vintage movies brings a whole new experience to fans of classic film, while making them more accessible to younger generations. We search for the best quality black-and-white films, meticulously restoring their original high-resolution digital masters. Prior to beginning colorization, we thoroughly research the era when the film was made to ensure that every color and hue is historically accurate. Then, each frame is individually colorized using the patented process that has earned Legend Films the accolades of cinema aficionados worldwide."

 

[Mike Frezon]

I'm going to re-post my sentiments from the "What's the last TV DVD..." thread:


I've never really seen any colorizations that have been satisfactory--to me.


And I think most people speaking on this issue are aware (but I guess I feel that it's my duty to gently remind about the mission of the HTF):

Quote

We the members of the forum are interested in the film product to be recorded and reproduced as closely as possible to the way the original creator(s) of that particular film intended. We respect the integrity of all artists involved in creating the original film as well as those who helped bringing the product to a form suited to be used in a home theater environment.

It is my opinion that TV shows that were presented in black & white should be seen in black & white. Colorizing some episodes (or entire seasons) because some later episodes (or seasons) were broadcast in color seems rather arbitrary to me. Maybe we should change the later color episodes to B&W for some notion of uniformity instead?


I also will gently remind about these other parts of our mission--lest we get caught up in this argument (which, technically, is not the point of this thread anyway):

Quote

Discussions on this forum are polite, cordial and respectful. We do not hesitate to express our opinion on matters involved, knowing other members may or may not share those opinions. We will always respect opinions of other members, even if we do not share a particular opinion ourselves. We will not verbally attack other members in a personal way, but instead try to contribute to the common knowledge about, and understanding of all applicable topics discussed.


...


We like others to take pleasure in what they apparently do like. We will never post with the sole intention to spoil other's pleasure. On this Forum, we want to feel at home and make each other feel at home.

Thanks.

 

[Dave Lawrence]

I definitely fall into the anti-colorization camp.


Sidney Sheldon may have wanted to film Season 1 of I Dream of Jeannie in color and couldn't, but I can't imagine he'd be in favor of transforming the final product into something so unnatural, unappealing and splotchy. Also, as Brian mentioned in the "What's the last TV DVD You Bought" thread about colorized Gilligan's Island, some backgrounds are still in B/W.


Anytime I've seen even a few moments of something that's been colorized, the look ranged from insultingly fake to awful, headache-inducing mess.


I fully respect those with differing opinions because everyone has their preferences. That said, since Ted Turner's original attempts to desecrate his film library in the 80s all the way to the present, I've yet to read or hear an argument that could convince me that colorization isn't - at best - an unfortunate error in judgment.

 

[MishaLauenstein]

Someone said that the B&W Bewitched seasons are just the colourized versions with the colour turned off, so I don't imagine they will look any better than what you're doing while watching the colour sets.

I turned off the color and discovered they didn't stay 100% faithful to the original BW palet when making color choices (i.e. selecting a color that returns the same hue in BW as does the original BW print). I still need to upgrade my S1 & S2 sets"

 

[Ron1973]

In my opinion, some programs have fared okay being colorized. The Three Stooges looked fabulous to me colorized as did It's a Wonderful Life. I think the technology has improved to a point that it's passable, though I understand some not liking it.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I'd have zero interest in rebuying a colorized "I Love Lucy" and yet I'll watch it when CBS occasionally shows a colorized episode in prime time.

I've read for that show that they've tried as best as possible to color the costumes and sets as close to what they actually were. I don't assume they're 100% accurate but as a curiosity I've enjoyed the handful they've shown.

But when it comes to spending my own money on an actually product...original black and white all the way. If the package happens to include a colorized disc (like "It's A Wonderful Life" on BD) I won't avoid the package in protest or anything. But when they're separate releases I want the original version. I'm in the market now for the Disney Zorro show and there's a colorized version and a B&W version, both out of print. The B&W will end up costing more I think but I'd never consider buying the color version.

The only colorized thing I actually like is Legend's version of Reefer Madness (released by Fox on DVD). It's colorized with an intentionally trippy look and I appreciate what they're going for, it makes my once a year campy viewing of it that much more fun.

 

[David Rain]

Nobody is going to buy a colorized version of a show that they aren't already interested in.

 

[Ron1973]

I'd have zero interest in rebuying a colorized "I Love Lucy" and yet I'll watch it when CBS occasionally shows a colorized episode in prime time.

I've read for that show that they've tried as best as possible to color the costumes and sets as close to what they actually were. I don't assume they're 100% accurate but as a curiosity I've enjoyed the handful they've shown.

But when it comes to spending my own money on an actually product...original black and white all the way. If the package happens to include a colorized disc (like "It's A Wonderful Life" on BD) I won't avoid the package in protest or anything. But when they're separate releases I want the original version. I'm in the market now for the Disney Zorro show and there's a colorized version and a B&W version, both out of print. The B&W will end up costing more I think but I'd never consider buying the color version.

The only colorized thing I actually like is Legend's version of Reefer Madness (released by Fox on DVD). It's colorized with an intentionally trippy look and I appreciate what they're going for, it makes my once a year campy viewing of it that much more fun.

Oddly enough, I was scouting out Zorro the other day myself. I have fond memories of watching it as a kid on our local PBS station on Sunday afternoons.

 

[turtledove]

Here in the UK at least, if shows like Bewitched and Jeannie were not available in colour the B&W seasons would just be skipped on broadcast tv.

Tellingly the UK didn't get the option to buy B&W seasons of Bewitched on dvd . I bought the US season 1 in B&W and season 2 in colour.

I eventually bought the colour season 1 because it looked better to me.

It's not a show I know well and it's not a moody drama or noiresque story so I don't care if its coloured.


Purchases like The Fugitive and Lost In Space I prefer in the original format and there are many shows that don't need coloring but I know in the UK B&W material on mainstream channels amounts to very little.

BBC2 still show B&W movies but B&W tv shows are very rare.

 

[Neil Brock]

Can we get black in white versions of color shows?

 

[jcroy]

Can we get black in white versions of color shows?

Back in the day of cathode-ray-tube television sets, wasn't this easily achieved by turning down the color level to zero?

 

[Tony Bensley]

Can we get black in white versions of color shows?

In my opinion, converting original Color programming to Black & White is no more proper than colorizing original Black & White shows, and unlike the imperfect, but serviceable turn down the Color method, Color can't be turned up from a Black & White Transfer! Of course, if a Black & White dupe print from an original Color Telecast is all that's known to exist, then that's a whole different kettle of fish, so to speak!

Back in the day of cathode-ray-tube television sets, wasn't this easily achieved by turning down the color level to zero?

In past experience, when viewing live television, sometimes poor reception also did the job for you!


CHEERS!

 

[Neil Brock]

I've been saying for years, color TV is just a fad!