Buying a new car (1 Viewer)

[DaveF]

Budget is $28k-$32k (before taxes). Late model used is sensible advice, which I'm going to ignore At least until I've done test drives, I'm very interested in the newest smartphone-integration features, which is only available in 2015 or 2016 models.


I need a sedan or mini-SUV for a mixture of daily commuting, weekend errands, and vacation driving. Memory seats are highly desired, for the fantasy that I could easily switch with my wife for some of the vacation driving.

 

[DaveF]

Did a back-of-envelope check of leasing vs buying on previous car. Basically, leasing a $30k car for the past 11 years would have cost me $76k ($575/mo for 11 years) to $48k ($575/mo for 3 years, then half that for 8 years from residual trade-in). The up side, I'd be driving a new car every three years. The down side, that's much more than I really paid for my car, and I've had not monthly payments for eight years. And I've not had the hassle of car shopping with car salesmen every three years. (No offense if you sell cars, but I derive no pleasure from dealing with salespeople of almost any stripe.)


I think I'm still more comfortable buying; leasing still doesn't make sense to me. It's a financial transaction I don't understand If I want a new car in three years, I'll sell / re-buy. It's not as easy, but financially should be similar to leasing, when all's done.

 

[DaveF]

Estimated trade-in on my Accord at ~$3500. I may get dinged further by not having matching tires (rear and front are different due to highway blowout, and choosing to replace front matching, but not do all four since they were otherwise in good condition.)

 

[schan1269]

Tires won't matter. That car will be off to auction by the next day. The dealer isn't going to resell that. Unless this is a dealer with a BHPH side.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I had a Buick Regal two weeks ago as a rental. The Regal was an a good cars in many ways. But it had three weaknesses for me: stepping on the gas to deal with L.A. traffic the car would take a moment to consider what I was asking and whether it was feeling up to it; badly designed touch-sensitive AC controls (it took several attempts before it would register a tap); and it didn't work well with my iPhone.



Overall, I've ruled out GM and Chevy cars based on rentals the past five years. I'm consistently disappointed when I get one as for business travel. (In contrast, I'm always happy to get a Ford Fusion as a rental.)

I'm sorry to read that as a recently retired GM manager. Perhaps, you should revisit some of their models again.

 

[DaveF]

I'm sorry to read that as a recently retired GM manager. Perhaps, you should revisit some of their models again.

It might just be the design decisions GM makes don't appeal to me. It could be that other folks love their GM rentals and hate the Hyundai Sonata or Ford Fusion in contrast.


I want to say I'll test drive a Cadillac. I'd like to. But I planned out my travel schedule for the Fall, and I'm gone every other week. I think my car shopping is going to be even more compressed than I'd assumed. Unless I decide my new weekend hobby is visiting car dealers. I may not take time for the frivolous and fun test drives like I did last go around.


Pity. There's a Ferrari, Maserati, Langourghini dealership ten minutes from here. And a Tesla showroom in the mall 30 minutes towards DC.

 

[DaveF]

I'm sorry to read that as a recently retired GM manager. Perhaps, you should revisit some of their models again.

On the flip side, my BIL owned Chevy's for years. And was an Escalade driver the past decade, I think. So I know folks that like them.

 

[Clinton McClure]

I'm sorry to read that as a recently retired GM manager. Perhaps, you should revisit some of their models again.

Robert - I bought two GM cars new (a 1993 Chevy Cavalier that I had to replace the motor mounts, the alternator 3 times, the water pump and the transmission and a 1997 Pontiac Sunfire which suffered from almost the same problems) and they each blew up at roughly 100k miles. Then I bought a 2000 Toyota Celica GTS which has been relatively maintenance-free since I drove it off the show room floor 15 years ago. I have only had to replace the consumables (tires, wiper blades, battery, lights, serpentine belt and brakes) and the alternator started giving out last summer so I replaced that. 335,000 miles on it and it still goes like Stig and runs like new.

To me, all domestic autos are ugly and don't perform well at all. When I rent cars for out of state trips, I am usually issued Fords and occasionally a GM car by the rental agency and they all have horrible rides and handling is non-existent. I rented a Hyundai Sonata last year when I flew to Connecticut and it was a pretty good little car. This past spring I was able to rent a 2015 Maxima and it was pretty good. When I buy another car, possibly in the spring, it will most likely be a Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic (I like small cars) and my wife is eyeballing a 2016 Honda Accord to replace her 2005 Mazda 3.

 

[DaveF]

I was re-reading my 2015 Consumer Reports guides this afternoon (a little New Year's eve shopping in NYC when I hoped to buy this past Winter). I was reminded that they now like the Chevy Malibu and Ford Fusion, among other domestic cars. I don't recall what GM cars they liked specifically as I was focusing on the "how to not get screwed on price" articles.

 

[DaveF]

I got my Accord appraised at CarMax which gives me a baseline value for trade-in.


While that was underway, I walked over to the Honda dealer and test drove the CVT EX-L and the V6 EX-L with Navisense today. The CVT is very smooth and zippy at low speeds; quicker feeling maybe than the V6 at stop lights and at neighborhood speeds. The V6 gives me the same smile at highway speeds, but after the CVT its pause and shift points are obvious. The V6 also has a dynamic cylinder shutoff to manage fuel, which was noticeable when merging into traffic at low speeds. Overall 2016 Accords feel like my 2004 Accord, both strengths and weaknesses (notably, the headroom is low for me with the sunroof). This is good in that it's immediately comfortable; but it's a weakness in that it lacks the "wow" of an amazing new car experience.


On the CVT, I ignored the infotainment center. I've never driven a CVT and wanted to give that a go.


On the V6 I played with the Honda Sensing lane-watching feature. As I drifted over the center lane, the center console flashed a yellow warning, and the the steering wheel started fighting to steer back. Then I forgot about it, until I was began taking a right exit from a limited access highway, without turn signal, and the car started fighting me! Oh, yeah, need a turn signal! I didn't take time to figure out the adaptive cruise control, so I can't speak to it.


CarPlay, which I've been very excited about, was a disaster. With my iPhone connected, I couldn't change volume and the FM stereo wouldn't work. I hope it's a glitch with the specific car I test drove and I told the salesman about it.

I'm ambivalent about the Navigation screen. It's a good location for touch interaction. It's a bad location for navigation while driving. The screen is too far down, too far away from the road for easy map glances while driving. It feels like a kludge by Honda, not a thoughtful design choice.

The car is good. The infotainment is disappointing. I will be looking at other cars.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Robert - I bought two GM cars new (a 1993 Chevy Cavalier that I had to replace the motor mounts, the alternator 3 times, the water pump and the transmission and a 1997 Pontiac Sunfire which suffered from almost the same problems) and they each blew up at roughly 100k miles. Then I bought a 2000 Toyota Celica GTS which has been relatively maintenance-free since I drove it off the show room floor 15 years ago. I have only had to replace the consumables (tires, wiper blades, battery, lights, serpentine belt and brakes) and the alternator started giving out last summer so I replaced that. 335,000 miles on it and it still goes like Stig and runs like new.

To me, all domestic autos are ugly and don't perform well at all. When I rent cars for out of state trips, I am usually issued Fords and occasionally a GM car by the rental agency and they all have horrible rides and handling is non-existent. I rented a Hyundai Sonata last year when I flew to Connecticut and it was a pretty good little car. This past spring I was able to rent a 2015 Maxima and it was pretty good. When I buy another car, possibly in the spring, it will most likely be a Toyota Corolla or Honda Civic (I like small cars) and my wife is eyeballing a 2016 Honda Accord to replace her 2005 Mazda 3.

Clinton,


I'm not going to turn this thread into defending GM products, but I will say that GM has made some big improvements quality-wise over the last 10 years.

 

[Clinton McClure]

Ouch. The lane watching / departure feature and dynamic cylinder shut off are deal breakers for me. I have read too many reports of problems with the dynamic cylinder shut off with many different makes of cars and the thousands of dollars people pour into the engines and ECUs to try to fix. A woman I work with bought an Impala SS with a V8 which would dynamically shut off 4 cylinders when the car didn't think they were needed. The engine was absolute rubbish and she did nothing but pour countless dollars into it trying to fix it when it decided it was only going to be a 4-cylinder engine forever. If I have a V6, I want it to be a V6 all the time and not a V6 when I'm accelerating away from a stop light and a 4-cylinder when I'm at speed on the interstate. It's efficient on paper but crap in practice. Blind spot indicators which flash and make noise are also super distracting and deal breakers if I cannot disable them. I understand they are there for safety but they do more harm than good, IMO. A loud alarm which sounds and a bright light that comes on when someone passes me on the interstate (the last Ford Fusion I rented had that) turned me off to Fusions. It also didn't help that during that trip to Atlanta, I was passed in the rain by another Fusion which hydroplaned, wiped out a guard rail and hit a bridge abutment head-on and the airbags did not deploy.

 

[schan1269]

Ouch. The lane watching / departure feature and dynamic cylinder shut off are deal breakers for me. I have read too many reports of problems with the dynamic cylinder shut off with many different makes of cars and the thousands of dollars people pour into the engines and ECUs to try to fix. A woman I work with bought an Impala SS with a V8 which would dynamically shut off 4 cylinders when the car didn't think they were needed. The engine was absolute rubbish and she did nothing but pour countless dollars into it trying to fix it when it decided it was only going to be a 4-cylinder engine forever. If I have a V6, I want it to be a V6 all the time and not a V6 when I'm accelerating away from a stop light and a 4-cylinder when I'm at speed on the interstate. It's efficient on paper but crap in practice. Blind spot indicators which flash and make noise are also super distracting and deal breakers if I cannot disable them. I understand they are there for safety but they do more harm than good, IMO. A loud alarm which sounds and a bright light that comes on when someone passes me on the interstate (the last Ford Fusion I rented had that) turned me off to Fusions. It also didn't help that during that trip to Atlanta, I was passed in the rain by another Fusion which hydroplaned, wiped out a guard rail and hit a bridge abutment head-on and the airbags did not deploy.

You'd think with modern multipoint injection, instead of AFM/DOD, engines could switch from 4 to 6 stroke.

 

[DaveF]

Ouch. The lane watching / departure feature and dynamic cylinder shut off are deal breakers for me. I have read too many reports of problems with the dynamic cylinder shut off with many different makes of cars and the thousands of dollars people pour into the engines and ECUs to try to fix. A woman I work with bought an Impala SS with a V8 which would dynamically shut off 4 cylinders when the car didn't think they were needed. The engine was absolute rubbish and she did nothing but pour countless dollars into it trying to fix it when it decided it was only going to be a 4-cylinder engine forever. If I have a V6, I want it to be a V6 all the time and not a V6 when I'm accelerating away from a stop light and a 4-cylinder when I'm at speed on the interstate. It's efficient on paper but crap in practice. Blind spot indicators which flash and make noise are also super distracting and deal breakers if I cannot disable them. I understand they are there for safety but they do more harm than good, IMO. A loud alarm which sounds and a bright light that comes on when someone passes me on the interstate (the last Ford Fusion I rented had that) turned me off to Fusions. It also didn't help that during that trip to Atlanta, I was passed in the rain by another Fusion which hydroplaned, wiped out a guard rail and hit a bridge abutment head-on and the airbags did not deploy.

FWIW, the lane-keeping feature is toggled by an obvious button over by the ECO button and such features. It's easily turned off. I didn't have a chance to try blindspot detection (not sure if it has that).


I don't know if the dynamic cylinder shutoff is new for Honda. They have an excellent reputation, as you know. But perhaps this is a new and to-be-regretted feature?

 

[DavidJ]

Our 2008 Pilot had this and we have family friends who also have Pilots from the same gen who have it. We had absolutely no problems with it when we traded it in last month not have I heard of many issues with it. They continue to use it on their new models and on the Acura MDX.

 

[Clinton McClure]

Perhaps Honda/Acura got it right.

 

[schan1269]

The problem with GM is what the system does. Honda doesn't do the same thing.

The GM setup only works on V8 pushrod.

Honda has never had a pushrod engine. Lawnmowers and mini-bikes excepted...

 

[DaveF]

I was reading driveaccord.net about the "VCM". While there are those that find it annoying -- and some enthusiasts that mod their Accord to defeat the system -- overall it seems to have been in use for years with any remaining 8th Gen quirks resolved in the 9th Gen Hondas (I think that's since 2012).

 

[Dennis Nicholls]

Honda has never had a pushrod engine. Lawnmowers and mini-bikes excepted...

The old joke is that if you hand a set of pushrods to a Japanese engine designer, he will think you are asking him to set the table for dinner.......

 

[David Norman]

If you're interested in the Accord, I'd strongly suggest checking out the Fusion line or Fusion Hybrid (as long as you don't need a lot of trunk space). I think the Ford electronic integration is supposed to get a big upgrade in 2016. I recently had a chance to look at the C-Max SEL and was astounded by how good it was compared to the Prius. The ride and interior appointments were just head and shoulders better than the Prius. Chevy Volt was unique, but just too small though I'm really interested to see what the new generation 2016 Prius and Volt do.


I'm current 16years into an Accord EXV6 though I never really had any thought of driving it that long.

My history

1973 AMC Matador -- Grandmom bought it, several grandchildren did most of the driving until my brother finally totaled it. Absolute nightmare

1977 Monte Carlo (last year before they destroyed it) -- served me well through College/Grad though seemed to always have something little going wrong, 3 moves, 1st and only wife. 85K and that was about as far as it was going to do.

1987 Mazda 626Turbo -- mostly loved it. Noisy, 'firm ride' everything rattled, but superb engine

1992 Taurus SHO

1995 SHO -- dearly miss those 2 cars and truly despise what they did to the 3rd gen. Best drivers seats ever.

1997 Explorer Eddie Bauer -- mostly loved it.

1999 Accord EXV6 only 125K miles, but deciding about whether it's worth doing the 2nd Timing Belt/Water Pump


Wife cars

1976?? Chevy Chevette - actually lasted her over 10 years and only 2 clutches, 3 alternators, 4 batteries, She liked it, I though it was a deathtrap.

1987 Accord LX for my wife -- she loved it and complained all the way through the next car

1996 Volvo 850 Wagon for wife after 2nd child-- she mostly hated the entire thing

1999 Honda Odyssey -- 140K and loved it

2007 Honda Odyssey -- 125K and counting. Surprisingly the 2nd gen is not quite as good as the original always with lots of little things going on.



2010 Fusion Base model. Really very impressed with the car when we 1st got and so far it's survived 2 teen boys learning to drive with it and ended up giving it to Son 1 when he grad College where he never needed a car. .


Son 2 actually was the main driver of the Fusion the first 18 months. Now new graduate again never needed a car while in school, but now moving to big city on west coast and trying to figure out what he needs. He really wants to like the Prius, but again was disappointed by test driving it and like the CMax so much better.

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I used to love car shopping, but never was a big fan of the buying process. Essentially with the 1999 Hondas and 2007 we walked in knowing I want this car, what;s the best deal and here;s what I know Invoice price is listed.


Internet car shopping is pretty much a whole different deal these days.

Now with Carmax no haggle, Carvana no haggle and will deliver the car to you at home, Cars Direct, Costco Car service, etc you can sort of prenegotiate the price with little issues. Once you decide what car you want you can almost let those guys do all the haggling and they just quote you the final deal -- if it's acceptable then deal done.