Best HT Reciever for under $500.00 (1 Viewer)

[noahG]

They are not particularly popular on this board, but NAD receivers are certainly highly regarded for music (as well as home theater). Depending on how much power you really need, the NAD t751 might be a good choice. The 752 should be coming out shortly so you can probably get a pretty good deal on one.

Noah

 

[John Garcia]

I'm not familiar with the Pioneers, beyond what I've read about the 47Tx and 49Tx, and I had no intent of considering the lower line of Pioneer when looking for a receiver.

"Loudness" and "midnight" are not the same mode, I'm guessing, which is what I was referring to. "Loudness" tends to be an artificial low and high boost, which in most cases, amounts to little more than changing the tone controls, something I don't like. "Midnight" would seem to be something that most receivers have these days, which is the opposite, and cuts back on dynamic peaks and reduces the low and high frequencies while enhancing the center speaker for improved dialogue. On my receiver this is called Night mode, and there is no "loudness" feature. Since I am not familiar with the 811/41, I really can't comment on these features.

 

[ThomasL]

Loudness on the Pioneers boosts the 100Hz range by 9dbs and the 10Khz range by 9dbs. It says so right in the specs in the back of the manual. The Midnight mode is a little more mysterious. The manual simply states that it "allows you to hear effective surround sound of movies at low volume levels." Since there is a separate option called "Dynamic Range Control" which does what it's name suggests and is recommended when listening to DD sources at low volumes, Midnight is something different. I've used Midnight and my ears can't hear any dynamic compression. Should they be able to? It certainly boosts the bass and treble like Loudness and perhaps is simply a multi-channel Loudness setting since bass/treble do not work on multi-channel modes such as dd/dts/DPL-II that I am aware of. I've also noticed that I like the sound with Midnight on when playing two channel music. Using an SPL meter, I was able to judge that overall volume is increased by 4-5 dbs but even when I turn up the volume 4-5dbs, switch off Midnight and do a direct comparison, Midnight mode just seemed to sound somewhat better to my ears. Unlike others, I don't mind using tonal controls. In the end if my ears don't like it, there's really no point to me listening. With that rule in hand, I like to have the option of tinkering with the tonal controls. At some point, I'd still like to do a direct comparison with say a Marantz 5200/5300 and see how much difference my ears hear.

The other factor here is that some speakers may sound better when given a little more "juice" so to speak. At low volume levels, the high and low ends may end up being dropped off somewhat which I think someone told me once is the reason many stereo receivers had/have a Loudness button.

cheers,


--tom

 

[Scott*CB]

John Garcia, please don't take this wrong but the question was about the best receiver under $500. If you don't have experience with the Pioneers then it seems out of place to criticize them. I was skeptical of Pioneer at first but the units speak for themselves.

As for the regular vs. Elite lines I looked long and hard at both the 811 and the 41 and they seem to be virtually identical. That said I still chose the Elite. Go figure. Is it worth $150-200 for ReEQ, 10 watts, QC , 1 yr extra warranty and a pretty finish? I think maybe yes. I have already found the LCD on the remote to be very useful.

All I was trying to say that if Edwin wanted to audition the Pioneers he should be sure to use the loudness/midnight modes to get the best out of the receiver. I don't know the details of why it does what it does but the receiver sounds dramatically better with these modes employed. With midnight or loudness activated this receiver can more than hold its own with anything under $500 and thus is worthy of consideration.

 

[John Garcia]

I DO have experience with Pioneers, simply not this particluar model(s) and generation. Well, it got to me, so I went and listened to a 41Tx about an hour ago. - Vienna Acoustics floorstanders (didn't get the model #, but dual 5-1/4" mids with soft dome tweets, Motzart, I believe) Denon CD player (DCM 460 I believe), analog, stereo, no sub. I can honestly say I was not impressed. I would have to borrow it and bring it home to put it through it's paces, but it did not inspire me to change my opinion of Pioneer's offerings in this price range. Since I have also never heard a 49Tx, I felt it was my duty to give it a listen also. VERY NICE. A TON of power, smooth, full midrange, airy highs. Too much $$$ for my pockets, but impressive none-the-less.

 

[JohnBrianW.]

I've enjoyed reading all of your post and am shopping around for a similar receiver. Maybe you can answer this for me...I've heard Marantz described as being "warm" sounding, what does that mean? I've heard both the Denon 1802 (new 1803 is better and the same price) and the Marantz 5200, both sound nice. I'll be using Axiom speakers.

 

[Scott*CB]

Cool John, I'm glad you checked it out. Did you have the midnight/loudness on? It is a very different receiver without it and I admit it is very thin sounding and unimpressive in plain mode. It's like magic, the receiver goes from bad to great with the press of a button.

I'd venture that Pioneer designed this unit as an entry level HT to be paired with a sat/sub system and that is probably where it will be at its best. I know it sounds great with my Def Tech ProCinemas. Still, it's never going to keep up with the 49, a truly great piece of equipment, but it does hold up well vs. Yamaha, Denon, Onkyo et. al. I, like many HT forum owners, am very happy with it.

I admit I haven''t heard the Marantz. The word I've heard on them is they have a nice warm sound but are a bit light on features for the price points.

 

[John Garcia]

When I say I was not impressed, I am not saying this was a bad receiver. For the price, it is not bad at all, but the sound quality, with no added features, was not there for music. I did not get to try it out with movies. DOH, I completely forgot to mess with the loudness/midnight function, perhaps next time.
IMO, if it doesn't sound good with everything turned off, "tweaking" to taste doesn't make me feel like I am getting what I wanted in the first place. Whenever I audition, I want to hear what the whole thing sounds like unassisted by additional circuitry ("normal" 2ch stereo, no DSP, tone controls flat) as this is the true sonic character of a receiver.
Marantz light on features? The way I see it, Marantz didn't include things you don't really need. Essentially, at this price point, the 5200 and up have basically every feature I was looking for, and the 7200 actually had more than I needed. 6.1, DPL II, (proprietary) EX/ES decoding, excellent DACs, plenty of ins and outs including full 7.1 preamp input and 6.1 output, respectable power, "source direct" bypass mode, CS5.1, 6ch stereo, and more. The only things that would have been nice to add would have been flexible bass management, adjustable DPL II, and a better remote! (6200) I replaced the crap remote wihtin a few days, but I think I would have done that anyway.
To me, warm, when talking about a receiver, means midrange is rich and pleasant, bass is smooth and the highs are not harsh. It doesn't mean exactly the same thing to every person. To me, the 41Tx I heard was not very warm, nor very clear with vocals. I did not spend a lot of time with this unit though, and the speakers were also kind of flat in the midrange, even when I listened with the CD hooked only to a separate Denon amp, though they did sound better with the 49Tx. Some of this could also be attribuable to the CD player. What I wanted to listen to was the Sony 222ES, but the salesperson could not get it to work. :frowning:
Axioms are a little on the bright side, IMO, but should work fine with both Denon and Marantz. I was impressed with Axiom.

 

[Scott*CB]

Well John, that's exactly my point. The Pioneers sound bad raw and if that's the only way you'd ever listen to it then it's a bad receiver; however, under real world conditions (I have yet to turn the Midnight mode off) the Pioneer is excellent. I can't compare it to the Marantz because I haven't heard it but it's a match for the Denon 2802 (I ran those A/B) and the 811 costs about $200 less than the Marantz 5200/Denon 2802.

 

[ThomasL]

Scott, do you use the Midnight mode for movies as well or just music sources? I've found movies to be fine on the 811S without the need of the extra Midnight processing.

cheers,


--tom

 

[John Garcia]

The store I was at (Magnolia Hifi) only had the 41Tx, and the salesperson was not that well versed outside of the products they carry, because he didn't know what an 811s was. They had the 41Tx for $599 I believe, which is what I paid for my 6200 locally. Spec wise, the 6200/7200 match up to the 2802, but in reality, based on performance and power (not features, the 3802 has quite a few features I like and it sounds great for HT), I auditioned it against the 3802 (locally $999), and I ended up choosing the 6200. To me the 41 sounded similar to Denons and Yamahas in the price range.

 

[MikeyWeitz]

I too am enjoying my 811 very much and leave it in midnight mode. Definately gives it a much warmer sound.
You can not beat this receiver for the $300 I paid for it!

 

[Rich Malloy]

But Edwin's foremost criterion is good music reproduction. The 811 packs alot of features in for the money, but reproducing music is not among its strengths. Of all the receivers discussed here that I've heard, I'd say it's easily the worst in that regard.

It's a great cheap alternative for home theater, but comes up way short for anything close to critical music listening.

 

[Angelo.M]

I agree with Rich...
Went to my friend's A/V shop last night and had the opportunity to test a Pioneer 811 against these receivers:
Marantz 4200
Sony DA1ES and DA2ES
Onkyo TX-SR600
H/K AVR-125 and 225
Speakers used were the B&W 303's and the JBL S38II's. We compared music only, using Miles Davis' "Highlights from the Plugged Nickel" (awesome album, by the way).
The comparison... Well, there was none. Each of these sounded superior to the 811. We didn't blind ourselves, unfortunately, but we tried to be as fair and objective as possible. In terms of warmth, sonic detail, soundstage...the 811 has a thin sound. "Midnight" mode didn't seem to make a substantial improvement. Which sounded the best? The Marantz, the H/K and the Sony units were very close; Onkyo trailed a little behind in terms of warmth.
Let your ears be the judge. And then buy a Marantz! Just kidding.
--AM

 

[John Garcia]

Let your ears be the judge. And then buy a Marantz! Just kidding.

LOL.
Marantz: "Because music matters"

 

[Aaron H]

Is there any good online source for Marantz? What model of Marantz compares to the Denon 1803? the 4200? 5200?

Thanks, Aaron

 

[John Garcia]

Refurbs: Accessories 4 Less. Authorized dealer.
New: Cambridge Soundworks. They don't have the best prices, but they are also an authorized dealer. (I have them local, so I just go down to the store and get the same price as the web with no shipping) Watch for the Labor Day sale, sometimes they have great holiday deals.
Note: Marantz now has a full page notice about buying their gear from unauthorized dealers. Marantz. Go to the products section.

 

[ThomasL]

Aaron, that would be the Marantz 5200.
As for the Pioneer, I would say anyone really interested in critical music listening should probably not be looking at this price range anyhow With that said, I definitely found a big difference in Midnight vs. non-Midnight for 2 channel music listening. Much will depend on the music being listened to (for me, that is going to be acts like Norah Jones, Cowboy Junkies, Richard Buckner, Innocence Mission, etc.), the speakers (and their placement), room configuration, etc. After numerous experiments in our space with "budget" $200 bookshelf speakers, it's amazing how much the same cd player/receiver can sound very different in two different places in the same room. Move the speakers around and things change again. I've become a believer in the notion that if you really want critical listening, first start with the best speakers you can afford and figure out the best placement in the room - even with a budget receiver, this will make a difference.
cheers,
--tom

 

[ThomasL]

John is definitely right with regard to CSW. Wait for their sales which are extremely frequent. In addition, you can bargain with them. i.e. you can usually get the sales price even when the sale is not going on.

cheers,


--tom

 

[John Garcia]

first start with the best speakers you can afford and figure out the best placement in the room

I agree with this 100%. I have an acquaintence who came over to listen to my system. He balked when I said I paid $600 for my receiver... I believe my system cost about the amount he spent on his speakers alone. That said, after about 20 min of auditioning, he was sufficiently impressed that he actually said it sounded better than his system for both movies and music. He called it "dailed in" His mindset appeared to be "If I buy expensive gear, it HAS to sound great", yet he was not totally satisfied with his system.
I have tried my speakers in many different configurations, and they sound noticably different with each. Just sticking the speakers out there and figuring that is how it should sound does not yield the best results, in general. Speaker placement is just as, if not more, important than receiver selection, IMO.