Best HOME THEATRE Subwoofer (1 Viewer)

[Dustin B]

Pfft, minor problem Especially considering what some of the people who have one say about them (Mike Knapp, ThomasW, Rich Kraus, etc). Besides, you can hear my current sub thoughout the whole house anyways right now. Unless you current sub is gutless or you have an exceedingly well built house any sub will end up being heard through the whole house when played loud.
Problem (not a bad one to have mind you) is my current sub is very good, so the infinite baffel is pretty low on my list. Projector, new speakers, amps/prepro/receiver will come first. But damnit, I will eventually own an infinite baffel or a huge ass bass horn

 

[steve nn]

Mike are you saying your stacked wimpy VTF-3's are contained to one room when they are running?

 

[Kyle_Y]

Definitive Super Cube I or Super Cube II. High SPL, moves tons of air, reasonable price. And wow do they have a nice piano gloss, black laquer finish!

 

[Phil_DC]

M&K 350THX subs are just about the tightest fastest subs going, they are definitely in the upper echelon of HT subs.

 

[MarkWC]

Has anyone heard the Definitive Technology Supercube I or II's extension? I am considering this in lieu of the SVS 25-31 PCI+ b/c of WAF.

 

[Dustin B]

If you are thinking of a Supercube check this out:
http://www.hometheaterforum.com/htfo...54#post1070054

 

[Edward J M]

Has anyone heard the Definitive Technology Supercube I or II's extension? I am considering this in lieu of the SVS 25-31 PCI+ b/c of WAF.

Clearly, Dustin's hotlink to that other post should destroy any notion that a Supercube should be in the running - just look at TV's OBJECTIVE data on it's output capabilities - it barely runs with $200 subs.

If you are considering a commercial box sub, look at the HSU VTF-3, the Klipsch RSW-12, or the Velo HGS-12.

If you can wait, SVS is on the verge of introducing its own line of box subs. Supposedly the cylinder subs will still be the king of the price/performance ratio, but the box subs will be a very close second with a better WAF, and are promised to outperform similarly priced and sized competition.

Regards,

Ed

 

[KevinST]

Edward, you say the Klipsch RSW 12, why not the 15?

 

[Edward J M]

Edward, you say the Klipsch RSW 12, why not the 15?

It's a bit over his price limit of $1,000, isn't it? I thought maybe he could squeak an RSW-12 in for around a grand. Was I off base here?

Ed

 

[PatrickS]

Clearly, Dustin's hotlink to that other post should destroy any notion that a Supercube should be in the running - just look at TV's OBJECTIVE data on it's output capabilities - it barely runs with $200 subs.

WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP! I JUST TESTED A SUPERCUBE II IN MY HOUSE AND IT WAS RATTLING DISHES IN THE OTHER ROOM AT OVER 100db AT 30Hz. TOM V. OBVIOUSLY HAS AN AGENDA!!!

PATRICK

 

[Steve WC]

I believe those figures were taken from a list made by Tom Nousaine of Sound and Vision Magazine, not by any testing done by TomV of SVS.
Time for a cold shower
P.S. Glad you like your Sub.

 

[PatrickS]

Really, I have yet to see those, are they published somewhere or are we taking Tom's word on it, besides that fact they are false!

 

[Steve WC]

This is the best I could do. I do not recall were the info was originally posted. It has probably been updated.


I agree that the measuring techniques of many manufacturers are not always the same. Therefore, many people rely on the Bass Gurus themselves to provide honest numbers and technical data such as Tom Nousaine(probably the most knowlegable bass guy on earth).
These are his figures for most of the popular subs out on the market.
"All figures are for a corner loaded subwoofer, 2 meter SPL mic distance,10%
distortion limit,and the SPLs have been averaged from the maximum output at
1/3 spacing at 25/31/40/50/63hz.

( * ) denotes a manual data adjustment applied by myself to compensate the
subwoofer from Nousaine's *small* room(2400) to his newer *large* room(7500).

SVS Dual 20-39cs+600w amp 115.5 /20hz~97 / 25hz ~111.8 / 31hz ~120.9(124dB peaks)
.
STRYKE HE15 proto-type 115.3 / 16hz~99 / 25hz~106
VELODYNE F1800 - 111.9
20-39cs - 109.5 / 20hz~91dB / 25hz~105.8dB
VELODYNE FSR15 - 109.1 / 16hz~90.1 / 25hz~103.1
MISSION 700as - 108.1 / 25hz~102
Paradigm PW2200 - 108 / 20hz~84 / 25hz ~104dB (112.8dB peak)
VELODYNE HGS15 - 107.7 / 16hz~89.1 25hz~102.1dB
Paradigm Servo15 - 107.3 / 27hz
VELODYNE SPL12 - 107.1 / 20hz ~90 /25hz ~ 99
HSU RESEARCH TN25(w/250w) - 107.1 / 30hz
HSU RESEARCH VTF-2 - 107.1 / 20hz~9325hz~99dB
Cerwin Vega cvt300s - 107 / 16hz~80db / 20hz~92(112.4dB peak)
KLIPSCH KSW300 - 106.0 / 25hz~92 *
Cerwin Vega LW12 - 106.0 / 20hz~89
POLK 650 -105.9 / 25hz~90
Infinity 1.2s - 105.5 / 20hz ~90 / 25hz~95
BW asw1000 - 105.4 / 25hz~92.4 *
MK mx125 mkII - 105.3 / 20hz 89 / 25hz 95
VELODYNE ct150 - 105.3 / 20hz~82(111.4dB peak)
JBL D112 - 105.2 / 25hz~95
KLIPSCH KSW12 - 104.9 / 25hz~90
Boston Acoustics PV800 - 104.4 / 20hz~85
Phase Technology PC500(towers) - 103.6
Infinity interlude100 - 103.5 / 25hz ~ 94
BW asw2000 - 103 / 29hz *
PSB Subsonic6 - 102.7 / 25hz~94
Sound Dynamics rts1200 - 102.1 / 25hz~92(110.9dB peak)
Infinity IL100s - 102dB / 25hz ~94dB
VELODYNE ct120 - 101 / 20hz~87
MK - mx105 -100.6 / 25hz~86
ATLANTIC TECH 272 PBM - 100.5 / 20hz~85
INFINITY hps250 - 100.2 / 25hz~82(112.8dB peak)
KLIPSCH LF10 - 100.1 / 25hz~90
PSB subsonic 3i - 100 / 28hz *
MISSION ms70asa - 100/32hz~92dB
SUNFIRE Jr. - 100 / 25hz~95
VELODYNE VLF810 - 100 / 25hz~91
Canbridge - 100 / 20hz ~82dB
POLK PSW350 - 99.8 / 25hz~82
VELODYNE FSR12 - 99.7 / 20hz
JAMO E 8sub - 99 / 25hz~ 86dB
VELODYNE VA1012 - 99 / 29hz
JBL PB10 - 99 / 25hz 82
POLK RMDS-1 - 98.6 / 25hz- 77
VELODYNE FSR10 - 98.4 / 20hz
BW asw2500 - 98 / 25hz~86dB
ENERGY ES12xl - 98 / 28hz *
Paradigm PDR10 - 98 / 25hz
PHASE tech power8 - 98 / 25hz~84
Polk psw250 - 97.3 / 32hz~91
ATHENA S3 - 97.0 / 25hz~87
Energy S8.2 - 97 / 25hz ~82
VELODYNE CT80 - 97.0 / 25hz~81
MIRAGE frx s10 - 97 / 25hz~84
JAMO sw505 - 97
Klispch KSW10 - 96.9 / 25hz~85
TANNOY PS110 - 96.8 / 20hz~71 / 25hz~84
CANTON AS25 - 96.8 / 25hz~80
MK V-1250thx - 96 / 25hz~86
Atlantic technology 4.5 - 96 / 25hz~82
ATHENA S2 - 96 / 25hz~87
ACI titan - 96dB / 25hz~80
PSB alphasubzero - 95.2 / 32hz~88
Aura Lss-107A - 95.2 / 25hz~73
Celestion cswII - 95 / 25hz~78
Paradigm 90P(towers) - 95 / 20hz
GALLO MPS-150 - 95.0 / 25hz~86
ENERGY ENCORE - 94.4 / 25hz~78
ENERGY XL8 - 94 / 25hz~78
POLK PS-120 - 94 / 32hz -no SPL given
Wharfedale Modus - 93.1dB
DEF TECH BP2002TL Tower - 92.3 / 25hz ~80(single tower)
Paradigm PD8 91.4 / 25hz~73dB
MK k9 - 90.1 / 25hz~77
Cerwin Vega hts15 - 89 (107 from 40-100hz) / 39hz
DEF TECH Pro Tower400 - 89 / 25hz~81d (single tower)
DEF TECH BP 2006TL Tower - 88.4 / 25hz ~73(single tower)
ATHENA P1 88.5/ 32hz~85.5

-----------the following use a 25-50hz range----------

Boston Acoustics VR2000 -109dB
Hsu Research 12V (150w) -106.5dB / 25hz - no SPL given
Cerwin Vega HT-PWR12 -105.9dB / 25hz - no SPL given
BW asw800 -105.1dB / 2

Perhaps one of the other members can post a link to the most recent list.

 

[Robert_Gaither]

First off PatrickS, Tom is a highly respected person (as well as Ron) on many forums and are highly respected on their view of subs (how many mfg do you know will recommend a competitor's sub?) due to the fact that they also point out specs that are done by independent third party sources (trust me an EBS alignment sub sells itself once heard and there is no need of a hidden agenda). Tom might have also made a speculation by simply applying Hoffman's Iron law concerning the Deftech's cabinet volume, claimed amp power, and woofer approximate displacement (this hobby is full of "specs" marketing). I know at least that I'll take his opinion on the Deftech's performance though I don't own either an SVS or Deftech sub.

I think the best sub a person could possibly buy for under a $1000 might be to either comission Kyle or Brian and have them build you a sub, though I'd recommend letting them put in the values for you with their program for max performance.

 

[PatrickS]

First off PatrickS, Tom is a highly respected person (as well as Ron) on many forums and are highly respected on their view of subs (how many mfg do you know will recommend a competitor's sub?) due to the fact that they also point out specs that are done by independent third party sources (trust me an EBS alignment sub sells itself once heard and there is no need of a hidden agenda). Tom might have also made a speculation by simply applying Hoffman's Iron law concerning the Deftech's cabinet volume, claimed amp power, and woofer approximate displacement (this hobby is full of "specs" marketing). I know at least that I'll take his opinion on the Deftech's performance though I don't own either an SVS or Deftech sub.

Steve and Robert:
For the record, I HIGHLY respect Tom S. and Tom N. But if I had to pick a person who knew most about this subject, it would be Richard Hardesty (aka: Dr. Boom)
I knew my comments might get a rise out of a few people here. My one and only single point was that Tom S. had not listened or tested the SuperCube himself. As far as Tom N. tests from S&V goes, I still have not seen any proof, the above list does not include it. No where on S&V mags. sight is it mentioned either. The funny part about that is on thier site there are actually people who own the SuperCube and HIGHLY recommend it. I have yet to read a post from this forum from someone who owns one or has tried one in thier house.
I just get really tired of people recommending or in this case NOT when they have not heard it for themselves. I owned a Def. Tech. ProSub 100TL myself and did not like it. My latest Sub a Earthquake SuperNova MK12IVP puts out a huge amount of bass. I did a side by side "REAL world" comparison. What did I find out? That the earthquake went a little lower but that the SuperCube II was almost, but not quite, as loud. But the Def Tech sounded cleaner and smoother!
I know people here have a bias towards DIY and SVS etc. That's fine with me. Just please do not recommend another sub unless you have heard what it can do yourself.
That's all,
Enjoy!
Patrick

 

[Tom Vodhanel]

Tom Nousaine(one of the most honored members of the AES) measured the performance of the DT supercube II using a highend *melissa* acoustical measurement system with multiple Earthworks mics/preamps,and a Audio Control 3050a Sound Level Meter. I believe he was out of *dishes* that day...so all he could rely on was this combination of test gear...

The performance he measured on the DT follow with a small smaple of other subs he has measured(using the same measurement method).



DT supercube II($899)

25-63hz~96.9dB/25hz~85dB

Some alternatives close in performance,

Klispch KSW10($199 on line?) - 96.9 / 25hz~85
PHASE tech power8($249?) - 98 / 25hz~84
Energy S8.2($199?) - 97 / 25hz ~82
VELODYNE CT80 - 97.0 / 25hz~81
---------------------------------------------


You may say I am bias toward SVS, and that isn't debateable...but to shout out I have an *agenda* when I quote the findings of Tom Nousaine...is a "kill the messenger" mentality.


Tom V.
SVS

 

[PatrickS]

Tom V. sorry about the S. (I don't know what I was thinking),
what can I tell you? I just got through testing it again.
In my room, I measured the SuperCube II through my system at 30Hz it hit 106db EASILY. Side by side comparison with my Earthquake ($1600) sub which hit 109db (My guess is the EarthQuake is just a LITTLE better than those other 4 subs mentioned). I know what I tested, I was there. I know nothing about what Tom N. did except what you just told me.
My point is let Tom N. post his findings as I did.
I'm sure you can see my reasoning. When a normal Joe says he read a certain review and posts the results to the rest of us it seems easier to take. But when it comes from the maker of one of the competitors it just does not "feel" right. Regardless of the truth of it! Now that's just my opinion. I've never heard your subs, I'm sure they are great, it just does not sit well to hear you criticize other subs you have never heard, regardless of who told you. And that is just human nature.
I understand you have a business and you get a lot of it from these forums I have no problem with that! I just think all sides should be looked at that's all!
As far as the "agenda statement" I will choose my words more carefully. I did not mean to offend you, that was not the purpose of my post!
Thanks,
Patrick

 

[Tim Hess]

SVS 20-39PC+

I like mine.

 

[Dustin B]

How did you measure your subs Patrick? What mic, what software, what was the distortion level at the 106dB at 30hz?

Also remember that the first number Tom V gave that Tom N measured is the average of 1/3 octave tones from 25hz to 63hz. The second is the maximum output at 25hz. And all measurements where limited to a maximum THD of 10%.

If you weren't limiting max output by a reasonable distortion measurement sure, the cube very well may be capable of 106dB at 30hz, but unless TN received a faulty unit, the distortion levels will be significantly higher than 10%.

Edit: Thanks John, can't believe I forgot to mention the room. TN measures in an over 7000ft^3 room. How big was the room you measured 106dB in Patrick?

 

[John F. Palacio]

As it has happened before, this thread has degenerated into a flame war.

Someone expresses a preference for a product, another member put this product down and OFF WE GO!!!!!

It begs to be explained that subs, more so than any other acoustical reproducer are heavily room dependent. This leads to different perceptions of what a particular sub is capable or not capable of doing.

This is why any sub measurement HAS to be accompanied by the methodology employed or it is next to meaningless.

Best regards.