Are there any true Kuro killers out yet? (1 Viewer)

[Mike Boone]

I certainly agree with Worth and other members in hoping that OLED takes off. But I'm worried that OLED could ultimately fall victim to the same market forces that did in the Kuros.

Sometime in 2009 I visited my favorite home theater specialist here in Northeast Ohio, and noted the dramatic price difference between the 50" Pioneer Kuro priced at $4,500, and a 50" Panasonic plasma (which was also 1080p) that had just come in, and was being priced at $1,500. The 2 plasmas were in separate rooms, so a direct comparison was not possible. If a customer happened to bring in his own discs with dark scenes, I'm sure he would have noticed some black level superiority with the Kuro, and the store's staff really talked up the Pioneer. But I'd bet that the average Joe who wandered into that store, either thought that the differences between the 2 plasms were non-existent, or marginal, at best.

Well we all know what soon happened to the higher priced brand. Fast forwarding to today, we now see LG pricing a 65"4K OLED at $10,000 when Samsung and Sony (and even LG itself) are seen to be selling 65" 4K LCDs/with LED backlighting, at only a third of the cost of that LG 4K OLED. Sounds like a familiar pricing ratio, doesn't it?

What really concerns me about OLED's chances in the marketplace are the conditions under which potential customers are likely to view this technology. At least in the store I referred to, lighting was somewhat subdued. But today's consumers are much more likely to be introduced to OLEDs under the bright lighting of a Best Buy, than anywhere else. In that kind of a situation OLED's superior black level just may not stand out to many people.

Several months ago, I read about a well equipped, full service, home theater store in the UK. On display the store had 65", and even larger, 4K LCDs.
If memory serves, the store was even demoing Samsung's 78" curved 4K LCD. The author of the article noted, that off to the side, the 55" 1080p OLEDs on hand (believe both the LG and Samsung models were present) were receiving no attention from the members of a pretty good size crowd.

So, finally, as mentioned earlier, sure agree with Worth, and others, that OLED needs to take off, but are there really enough people who place importance on picture quality to actually make the technology financially viable? Right now it seems like LG may be the only company that believes the answer to that question may be yes.

 

[William Moore]

I wonder what the "street price" for LG's 65" OLED will be. I'll bet it will be way less than 10-grand, that is, if they want to sell any. Also, what about longevity of OLED displays? That's an "uncharted course" for now, it seems to me.

 

[Mike Boone]

William, you raised what is probably the most important issue concerning OLED's long term prospects for success. Will there be uneven brightness deterioration of the blue pixels as was reported earlier in OLED's development? No one wants to sink serious money into panels that might only look good for a few years.

Personally, having a 2 month old 80" 1080p LCD, I'm in no hurry for an upgrade. Tech writer Alfred Poor stated that the materials that go into an OLED panel can actually be cheaper than those that go into a same size LCD/with LED backlighting panel, but it's the difficulty of reliably fabricating OLEDs that brings about the high cost.

I'd say there is a good chance for a manufacturing breakthrough which would result in OLEDs becoming at least as cheap as same size/same resolution LCDs. I hope this can happen within the next 4 years, and that by then, any problems with longevity have also been solved. I'm encouraged
by remembering that in the early days of plasma it was claimed that manufacturers had to discard 9 of 10 units that were produced. This helps explain why the first HD plasma, a 50 inch Pioneer (and not even an Elite) was $25,000 and was only 720p. I have a test report on that model that said the panel gave a green cast to blacks and had pixels dancing on people's faces when playing DVDs because the panel did a poor job of scaling DVD resolution to the native resolution of the panel. Things sure started to change radically for plasma, later, quality wise, and price wise. But those early plasmas were lousy.

When I go 4K, really am hoping it will be with OLED. Hope it's not just wishful thinking that 4K OLEDs of 80" or larger, may be available in 4 years for $7,000 or less.

Anyway, William, let's all keep our fingers crossed.

 

[William Moore]

Right on, brother!

 

[Mike Boone]

I'm really getting a kick out of HTF and it's members already, and have only been a part of all this a couple days.

Wondered what some of my fellow members might think about a theory I have that a seldom mentioned factor played a key role in LCD panels achieving
such dominance in the U.S. marketplace.

Most Americans had already been well accustomed to using LCD computer monitors for years, when they finally went out to buy into HDTV.

Naturally, then, these folks figured that LCD was a well proven, reliable technology. And some of these people had to be somewhat suspicious over the fact that plasma panels were totally absent from the categories of home or office computer monitors. Many folks probably assumed that this meant that plasmas could not stand up to heavy use.

Of course we know that the main reason that plasma never got a foothold in the computer monitor industry, was because of the fact that stationary images did cause serious burn in on the early plasma models.

Also, I'd point out, that due to the cell walls with plasma, a greater inter-spacing between pixels, relative to LCD, results, which means that even a small plasma will exhibit more of a screen door effect at close computer monitoring distances, than an LCD of the same size and resolution. That's why when comparing 720p plasma HDTVs with 720p LCD HDTVs of the same size, reviewers often pointed out plasma's more obvious pixel structure.

 

[Mike Boone]

Say, would someone please tell me if it's very complicated to get rid of the lame ID heading that I invented for myself, so it can just be replaced with my
first and last name. Noticed that a lot of other people on HTF seem perfectly comfortable going by their names, and I'd certainly rather be known by my name than something like AnHDDetailFan. Can't believe I thought I was being somewhat creative, in coming up with an awkward handle like that. Actually, the most embarrassing part, was that it took me a full 5 to 10 minutes to come up with that " creation."

Anyway, would sure appreciate any advice that someone would offer, concerning the easiest way to undo the damage.

 

[William Moore]

Just contact a forum administrator and they'll be able to help. And, just as an aside, I'm keeping my Pioneer plasma for the next year or two. It has given me very good service and I see no reason to go 4K right now.

 

[Mike Boone]

Thanks for your response, William.

And is your Pioneer a Kuro, or a plasma that Pioneer was making before it introduced the Kuros? Actually, in either case, I'd never get rid of a Pioneer plasma, since it would serve as a nice historical reference for what was possible in its time.

Take care there.

 

[William Moore]

Michael: My Pioneer plasma is a 60" KRP600M monitor, so it definitely IS a Kuro. I purchased it new in August 2009 from an authorized dealer for $3195. It wasn't inexpensive but worth every penny. I have had it calibrated twice (2nd time a touch-up) by an ISF-certified calibrator. What a picture! It's a great television. You take care also.

 

[Mike Boone]

William, that was a hell of a deal! Remember that in 2009, my favorite a/v shop, here in NE Ohio, was selling a 50" Kuro Elite model for $4,500, so you sure made out great for a 60" Kuro monitor. I'd sure hold on to that baby!

Would give you exact model # of the Kuro I mentioned, but it's contained in some test reports I have filed down in the theater room, and my wife has asked me to please hurry along so we can get to a little restaurant that closes in the early afternoon. I'll note that model for you later.

Take care there.