Anyone pick up the Steely Dan Gaucho SACD today? (1 Viewer)

[Lee Scoggins]

Thanks Michael. That's useful. I always love analog.

 

[John Kotches]

I suspect, but have no confirmation, that the final path would have been:

24/96K Six-track master --> Analog --> DSD

Elliot Scheiner has used a similar approach in the past, going 24/48K --> Analog --> 24/96K on Donald Fagen's Kamakariad.

If I hear anything about that, I'll report back.

If the above is the case, we're hearing extraneous A/D and D/A in the path which will have a very slight effect on delivered quality.

Time will tell.

Regards,

 

[Michael St. Clair]

I heard a strong rumor years ago that everything at Ryko went through an analog stage to 'warm' the sound up a bit, that even their DDD releases were really DDDaD.

Not sure if it is true.

I wonder if the upcoming 'Gaucho' DVD-A will still have the extraneous analog stage. Presumably so.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

24/96K on Donald Fagen's Kamakariad.

Kamakiriad sounds very good too.

John, was this the same process on The Night Fly as well?

 

[Greg Johnson]

Lee said:

If it does not, then it could sound better than the SACD.

Oh my God!! It's the Rapture!!

Sorry Lee, I couldn't resist. Nothing but love here.

Greg

 

[Lee Scoggins]

It's the Rapture!!

Does this mean we get to see Mimi Rogers and her, er, two assets?

 

[John Kotches]

Michael,

I see no reason why that would be necessary, or even desirable.

I can understand when transferring from PCM to DSD, to make things simpler from a digital standpoint.

Regards,

 

[Lee Scoggins]

John,

Quit sidetracking us with your relevant points of discussion, We were discussing Mimi Rogers!

 

[Ron Reda]

Just picked up "Gaucho" today at Media Play for $16.99 so I'm looking forward to getting home to check it out. I also picked up "Sinatra At The Sands" on DVD-A. I could have sworn I read something that said it was quite good.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

John, the Sinatra disc has had some very positive reviews. I think you will enjoy the Gaucho disc.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

I see no reason why that would be necessary, or even desirable.

Hey, I'm not saying it would be necessary or desirable, I'm just repeating a strong rumor that I heard many years ago and seeing if anybody else knew anything.

Do you think it was necessary or desirable to go 24/48K --> Analog --> 24/96K for the 'Kamakariad' DVD-A?

 

[Lee Scoggins]

24/96K for the 'Kamakariad' DVD-A?

My view is that this is completely silly even if the analog phase adds warmth which I am a bit skeptical of.

If there is a PCM source at 48K, then why not just upsample or leave as is for the DVD-Audio?

If there is an analog source, then sample the tape at 24/96 and get better sound.

If there is an analog source, then sample the tape into DSD at 2.8mhz for the best sound.

 

[John Kotches]

Michael,

I can't say for sure, but it is possible that analog EQ or some other analog item might have been used on Kamakariad strictly for a sonic signature.

Lee,

I preferred Jennifer Connely before she got too thin -- the curvier version is much more appealing than the current version.

Yeah, Mimi's quite attractive too.

Regards,

 

[Lee Scoggins]

I preferred Jennifer Connely before she got too thin -- the curvier version is much more appealing than the current version.

I agree. Jennifer is looking terrible these days in fact. She dresses in very drabby, unsexy clothes as well. She looked her best in The Hot Spot. Mimi always looks good for her age.

 

[Rocky Bennett]

Hello To All,
I am new to this forum, but I have really enjoyed reading this thread. I hoped me joining in. I picked up GAUCHO on SACD and I really love the sound of it. The surround mix gets a little ambitious at times, the female background vocals on MY RIVAL are really in the back, but overall I think that the surround mix was tastefully done, and actually quite restrained at times. As for all of this 24/28, 24/96 to DSD and all of that technical stuff that you guys are talking about, yes I am concerned about the source of the material that I listen to, but I am not fanatic. I prefer analog to DSD if possible, or otherwise analog to 24/192 to DSD if that is all that there is, but in the end I am mostly concerned with frequency range and dynamic ange, and I don't worry about a few little analog to digital to analog conversions along the way. On this subject, it was brought to my attention that MFSL used a pure DSD mixing system to re-mix and remaster the John Lennon original master recording of IMAGINE, but in the final sampling stage converted the DSD information into PCM at the insistance of Yoko Ono. Thus, the new MFSL edition of IMAGINE goes against the grain by staying DSD throughout the mastering chain, but got down converted to PCM for the final production stage because of a licensing agreement with the copyright holder. There are probably other instances of digital to analog conversion out there being performed due to artists fear of pirateing, that we as the consumer can just be happy to get what ever is given us.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

Considering that the new 'Imagine' disc is only a Redbook CD, there would be no way to release it without a final PCM conversion.

Also, I read where 'Imagine' was mastered to DSD, but doesn't it use the same remix as was released years ago?

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Rocky,

Welcome to the Forum! I hope you find these discussions enjoyable-we have a lot of interesting people on these boards and I find it to be my favorite home theater and audio site.

On this subject, it was brought to my attention that MFSL used a pure DSD mixing system to re-mix and remaster the John Lennon original master recording of IMAGINE, but in the final sampling stage converted the DSD information into PCM at the insistance of Yoko Ono. Thus, the new MFSL edition of IMAGINE goes against the grain by staying DSD throughout the mastering chain, but got down converted to PCM for the final production stage because of a licensing agreement with the copyright holder.

If they went from analog tape (which I suspect) to DSD and then downconverted to PCM, then the sonics could be excellent. DSD's downconversion process is highly respected in the recording community due to its clean sonics and the whole integer math division...the problem that may exist, based on my readings at Steve Hoffman, is that the source is said to be from the Yoko Ono mix, which is highly controversial to say the least.

At the end of the day, though, its a MoFi release and I will likely be curious enough to pick it up.

 

[Lee Scoggins]

Back to Gaucho...

http://www.highfidelityreview.com/ne...umber=12737878

This story on HFR hints that they did an analog to DSD conversion for the stereo layer (at least they started with analog sources by baking the tape) and then did a new 5.1 mix.

It also discusses a release date on The Who: Tommy for October 28th.

 

[Michael St. Clair]

On reading this more detailed article with the same players, I see nothing to indicate they went direct to DSD for anything.

http://www.surroundpro.com/2003/mar-apr/col_music.shtml

 

[Lee Scoggins]

The seven tapes were transferred into a Nuendo system at 96/24 utilizing Swissonic Mark II A-to-D converters that were individually clocked from a Swissonic master clock.

Thanks for the informative link Michael. I had not seen this article. It seems to indicate they transfered right into 24/96K. The way I read the HFR article was that they did this possibly only for the M-C tracks.

I'm amazed how great this disc sounds with an interim PCM step for the SACD.

Maybe this shows that with care and good equipment one can do these interim steps with limited sonic degradation. I suspect that an analog to DSD would be even better, however.

Notice how they were careful to use an external master clock to mitigate jitter.