Anyone listen to rap? (1 Viewer)

[Paul D Young]

Oh well John, It was going good for the first 12 posts. Then some people came in to make blanket statements insulting anybody who can appreciate something that they can't. I won't bother to point out that there is more to rap than "misogyny, sexism and the advocation of cop-killling" because they probably wouldn't care.

I would like to note that many of the negative factors and messages that were found in early rap music were magnified and became very popular after white suburban kids latched onto N.W.A. and other groups because of their shock value. This may or may not have caused the quick rise and popularity of negative messages in rap music and as long as people are buying it they will continue to make it. It is no different than recent comedies trying to outdo each other in the gross-out factor ever since There's Something About Mary. Many rappers are trying to out-shock each other, but amongst those efforts there are still some fine rap albums (and comedies) being made under the radar I'm sure. I just haven't found them to be worth the effort of seeking out since the early 90's.

 

[Mike Broadman]

I knew this would happen. I was going to warn John about the childish, absurd negative attitude towards hip-hop and rap, but decided to give people the benefit of the doubt. I was wrong.:frowning:
But that's OK, this all just continues the cycle of black music coming out, getting ripped apart by "critics" and the old-fashioned grouches, and becoming a central part of popular American culture and influencing the world. We need people like that to make music interesting.
Really, the idea of completely taking a shit all over a thread like that is disgusting. What did you accomplish besides pissing people off?
NP: Art Blakey, A Night in Tunisia, more black music that was slammed and misunderstood.

 

[Zen Butler]

Jesus! why can't there ever be a decent rap, I prefer hip-hop discussion? To disregard a whole genre of music is ignorant and assanine! People like Mike Broadman, myself and others, happen to have some pretty eclectic tastes in music, so we enjoy touching on a great number of them. If you question some of the content of mainstrem hip-hop, why don't you read the thread :
Jurassic 5
The Roots
Dialated Peoples
Wu-Tang Clan
just to name a few, are some non-mainstream acts you might learn a bit from, because they are geniuses in their own right, and might be like you never pressummed
it's funny you use words like no-talent and shallow to describe a whole genre of music, may I use those same words to describe some of the ignorant posts in here, that are here for the mere sake of a thread fart. State your opinion but put some effort in to it at least, and note the title of the thread before you puke.

NP: Art Blakey, A Night in Tunisia, more black music that was slammed and misunderstood

btw Mike love this tune

 

[Mike Broadman]

Back to the music...

btw Mike love this tune

How can you not?
Based on JasonK's recommendation a while back and the consensus of many rap fans, I listened to some Roots. I must say, I was not impressed at all. I heard tracks from a live album and a studio album, and didn't like their vocal delivery. Maybe I'm missing something.
On the other hand, I can't heap enough praises on Jurassic 5. I think it's my second-favorite hip-hop album. That is exactly my kind of sound.
NP: Herbie Hancock, Empyrean Isles

 

[Greg_Y]

The next time you hear someone saying "rap isn't music," what they really mean is "it's not a type of music that I understand."

A cool quote from a cool essay on rap music.
NP: Charles Mingus - Mingus Ah Um

 

[Zen Butler]

I listened to some Roots. I must say, I was not impressed at all. I heard tracks from a live album and a studio album, and didn't like their vocal delivery. Maybe I'm missing something.

uhh...yeah. It took me a while to get into them, they are very different. They play their instruments, so it's usually Drums, Upright Bass , Fender Rhodes(sp?) and vocals. Much like Wu-Tang, not everyone in the band is a stellar MC, but Black Thought is all flow. Maybe try some later albums first, Things Fall Apart , but not the live, which is more of a fan album w/ an awesome appearance by Jill Scott. They also (the band) are the backup band on JayZ's Unplugged, but you all may have known that.

 

[Zen Butler]

Thanks Greg! should be required reading before even entering the thread

 

[Howard Williams]

A few of my thoughts.

In response to the posts original question, Yes, I do listen to Rap. I too like most kinds of music. I can appreciate a good Country & Western songs just as much as a hard-core rap tune. My favorites are L.L. Cool J, Salt N Peppa & Heavy D. I really like DMX's and JaRule's voice but not enough of their content.

If someone posted a thread entitled,"Anyone listen to Heavy Metal?", and if I absolutely hated Heavy Metal (which I don't), I wouldn't feel the need to post and say "Heavy metal sucks!!) Some people just can't resist a chance to crap on rap.

I understand why lots of people don't like Rap but just like any form of music, it's not for everyone. It's not meant to be. I'll be the first to admit there's a lot of crappy rap, but you know what? There's a lot of crappy Pop, Rock, Western, Disco, Techo etc. too.

What makes a good rapper? 3 Things. Style (a.k.a. flow), voice, content/material

All Rap is not hard-core Gangster Rap. Remember Billy Joel's rap, "We didn't start the Fire"? Dude, that's a great Rap song.

One other thing I have to admit. Many of the themes in popular Rap are negative even though the artist will often try to put a positive message twist on it. "This is my thug life. See how bad it is. Don't be like me." I'm not sure if young, very impressionable kids get that third part. Instead they see it as "I wanna be just like you". I have a teenage son that is very much into Rap. He knows all the artist and all their songs, explicit lyrics and all. Raps influence on him is questionable but I have to remember that my parent felt the same way about me and the music I listened to as a teenager and I managed to come out 'OK'.

 

[andrew markworthy]

Because sticks and stones may break people's bones, but words will never hurt them?

The same remarks were made about the Jews when they first protested about the speeches of the Nazi Party. There's a world of difference between insults and something which espouses an entire culture of hate and 'us versus them' mentality.

None of this negates rap as a musical form, and I'm not saying that rap per se is 'wrong'. However, the messages it carries are, to a significant degree, poisonous.

 

[matt bee]

Andrew,

the problem is, the statement in your original post is just a broad generalization about the genre. Many detractors of rap music make similar statements without knowing what they are talking about. (This is the main idea behind the article posted earlier by Greg.) If you took a little time to listen to some stuff listed in this thread, you would see that there is a great variety of themes and ideas presented in rap music. Not all rap stars are thugs, though MTV apparently would like us to think so.

 

[Howard Williams]

The link Greg provided is an excellent read.

I am completely puzzled by anyone that would say 'Rap/Hip Hop is not music'. I completely understand why many people say Rap as seen on MTV is total crap but as so many informed people have noted, Rap is much much more than what you see on MTV.

 

[Mike Broadman]

There have been many threads here about heavy metal. I don't see people jumping in here yelling about how lyrics about partying, chicks, and Satan are bad and therefore, metal is bad.

Is it a coincidence that most HTF members are not black and so it's black music that gets attacked? Maybe not, I don't know, but it sure seems odd that there is never a thread about rap that doesn't get crapped on like this.

andrew, your post most certainly did over-generalise. I could say similar things about any musical style, but I generally prefer to leave my politics at the door when logging on to HTF.

Maybe I should run into any threads about electronica or the Eagles and fart all over it to show people how silly it is.

 

[Ted Lee]

i used to like rap when it first came on. artists like run dmc, doug e fresh, etc. those were "fun" songs that had a decent tone.
at some point, the rap music started to get "angry". it seemed that all the songs had a negative vibe and the artists had something to prove. that's when i stopped listening.
now i can barely tolerate it. i may hear another rap-lite song ("all i wanna do is zooma-zoom-zoom in your boom boom!" ) or something similar but that's about it. every once in a while i'll turn on mtv jams or something...just to see what's out there now. i'll be lucky to keep it on for more than a couple of minutes.
i absolutely would never begrude someone for listening to a style of music. i have people who look at my collection and roll their eyes...that's cool with me. i just call it different strokes for different folks.

 

[Ike]

The same remarks were made about the Jews when they first protested about the speeches of the Nazi Party. There's a world of difference between insults and something which espouses an entire culture of hate and 'us versus them' mentality.

The Nazi's weren't making art, they were a political party intent on killing large scores of people. Eminem wasn't seriously asking people to kill gay people and rape women. Ice T didn't expect you to go out and cop kill just because he told a story about it. I think it's a bit egotistical to assume people don't get the joke, or can't seperate reality from fiction. Society is the ultimate judge, and the American society has embraced shock rap. It's no different then Alice Cooper or Marilyn Manson, other than it's a little more grounded in reality.

And, as mentioned before, not all rap is shock rap.

 

[Paul D Young]

Also, "Cop Killer" was by Body Count which was a hard rock band, although it was blamed on Ice T. (as leader of the group) it was not necessarily rap. N.W.A. was indeed rap but they merely suggested that we "Fuck The Police" which could be taken two ways, especially if you are married to a cop.

 

[JasonK]

The amount of ignorance in this thread astounds me. I've been a member here at the HTF for 2 years now, and lurked for a good while before that.

I've yet to see ONE rap thread yet that didn't get sidetracked by a few people who broadly generalize an ENTIRE GENRE OF MUSIC BASED ON ACTS ON MTV. Or the videos on BET. Or the rap on commericial radio. THERE'S MORE RAP OUT THERE THAN JUST THAT, PEOPLE!!! Why is that so difficult to understand?

Andrew (and the other thread hijackers), you want examples of rappers pushing positivity?

Listen to "The Low End Theory" by A Tribe Called Quest.

Or, the song "Scars and Memories" on the Farewell Fondle 'Em CD. It's written by a rapper who is in prison, paralyzed, lamenting about the mistakes he's made in life.

Or perhaps you prefer your hip-hop with a touch of jazz. Listen to DJ Spooky's new "Optometry" disc. There's not a whole lot of lyrics. But, oh wait, it has hip-hop beats, so it must not have taken any talent to create. And the violin solo by Daniel Bernard Roumain was therefore tarnished.

Aesop Rock's 'Labor Days' is an album with numerous references to history and mythology.

I'll offer up the same question I've offered in the past when these discussions come up.

Have any of you actually listened to any of the rap that myself, Mike Broadman, and Zen have cited? If you haven't do so, and then post your comments on why it's an 'insult to musicians everywhere.'

Then, I can give you another list of of rap music you may not have heard. Like the entire set of music on the Solesides label.

Perhaps then we could have a real discussion about rap music, instead of the same old tired generalizations.

I don't mind if people don't like rap music. But I do have problems when a lot of artists, who have no desire to be on MTV or commercial radio, get labeled (c)rap without even being listened to.

 

[John Randolph]

Thanks to everyone who stayed on-topic....I enjoyed reading your opinions. As for me, I'm really into Tupac (or 2pac) right now. I'm surprised no one mentioned him. Other than Tupac, I enjoy listening to mid-90's rap mostly, but also some of the older stuff such as N.W.A. and Public Enemy.

 

[andrew markworthy]

Andrew (and the other thread hijackers), you want examples of rappers pushing positivity?

Oh dear, so someone who doesn't blindly follow your argument is a 'thread hijaker'?

Just to set the record straight - I have listened to a significant amount of rap, and whilst there are perfectly acceptable rap artists and topics, that does not deny that negative attitudes are the predominant feature.

We are not ignorant if we disagree. And arguing that 'because it's black you despise it, but white music escapes censure' is unbelievably patronising.

 

[Zen Butler]

Quote:

You know John, nobody mentioned Tupac or Biggie, they were both very special...I'm sure we will work around to talking about them, there was alot there. I love the Makeveli album and adore Biggie's Ready to Die, that album is a must

 

[Carl Johnson]

Snoop Dogg rules.....