Alliance.....is the quality of their DVD releases inferior? (1 Viewer)

[EdH]

Hi all,

I usually lurk here but I had to jump in, since the Alliance Atanarjuat vs. CTHV The Fast Runner is a topic I'm pretty passionate about.

Atanarjuat was shot on digital video, then transferred to film for theatrical release. Most films shot on video use the PAL format, since PAL is closer to film's frame rate and won't suffer as much during a transfer to film. Atanarjuat, however, was shot on NTSC video, and underwent a painstaking transfer to film. The cinematographer, Norm Cohn, has spoken in interviews about how extraordinary this process was. The movie went on to win numerous awards around the world and was praised for its cinematography.

I saw Atanarjuat in the theatres and thought it was one of the greatest theatre experiences I ever had. I purchased the R1 Columbia DVD when it came out, and was aghast when I watched it. Instead of using the film elements as the transfer source, they used the original video elements. This not only destroyed the movie's "film" look, it also had the unfortunate byproduct of speeding up the film. This accounts for the time difference between the US and Canadian releases.

Yes, the picture on the US release is crystal clear and sharp as a tack. But it is not the movie that I saw in theatres, and not the movie that won the Camera D'or. I ended up selling my copy. It's unwatchable.

At the end of the day, it's comes down to a matter of preference. Some prefer the video transfer, others the film transfer. I haven't heard anything from the filmmakers as to their preference. But I wanted to point out that it is not a universal conclusion that the Alliance version = crap. Here's a link to another thread on the topic, demonstrating that there is no clear consensus.

http://www.dvdtalk.com/forum/showthr...hreadid=271735

 

[Gary Tooze]

Thanks EdH,

That was facinating... I don't know how much I am swayed by the argument, but it was none-the-less interesting. I guess we know where the time in the Columbia went (4% slow down) You may be right that in the theaters they saw a more washed out version than we do on the Columbia Tri-star DVD. I will look into this further with some people I have been talking with from Alliance.

I have been asked to quote on a few upcoming articles on the manipulatioons that films are going through from film to DVD. Is it too much? I myself said they took the "film" out of "An Affair to Remember" with the new DVD.

Those color differences are tough to sway. The Columbia may have been 'dolled up', but I don't think the Alliance is accurate. How can it be? Everything is washed out. I heard its going to released at a review theater near my work, so maybe this will be my opportunity to judge... 0f course that depends on the print I see.

Regards,

 

[EdH]

I'm not really trying to sway you - you're going to prefer the version you prefer. Seeing the same version the whole world saw in the theatres might not change your mind.

All I'm saying is that there are people who think the Alliance transfer is the better choice - from what I've seen posted on the boards, people who saw it in the theatres prefer the Alliance transfer.

As I said, I'm a lover of the film, and I couldn't stand the Columbia transfer - it looked like a bad student film. I was so offended I had to get it out of the house. And this is from someone who owns plenty of DVDs with bad transfers because I enjoy the films - Clean Shaven, Tetsuo II Body Hammer.

I'd be really frightened if you convinced Alliance to use the Columbia transfer in a future release. Then there would be no equivalent of the theatre experience, just a botched transfer direct from video. Yikes!

 

[Tom Tsai]

Thanks for the info Ed. ...but my US version already shipped :frowning:

 

[Gary Tooze]

Well Ed none of my research seems to back up what you say...

Why would the cropped version be the one shown in theaters? and why would the theatrical version be so far off on their colors? Doesn't make any sense.

and my last question:

it looked like a bad student film

How? By showing truer colors ? and being sharper? certainly not the sign of a student film. In fact wouldn't it be the reverse? I am getting very confused. Is there is any way that you are mixing up the two DVDs?

Alliance Atlantis


Columbia Tri-Star


The Alliance-Atlantis disc was sourced from film and the Columbia/Tri-Star disc was mastered directly from the original digital beta video source.

Regards,

 

[Gary Tooze]

Seeing the same version the whole world saw in the theatres might not change your mind.

So, the whole world saw a hazy, washed out cropped (on top, right and left sides) film in the theatres eh ?

Alliance Atlantis


Columbia Tri-Star


Absurd.

 

[CraigF]

We had a thread on this movie when the U.S. DVD came out. I thought many people preferred the Canadian DVD because it was closer to the "film experience", what we were meant to see. Personally, I thought why would somebody not digitally transfer a movie made digitally to a digital medium, seems logical to me, but there are obviously different thoughts on this. I think the Canadian version is too red, too soft, and seemed to have poor contrast. OTOH, I think the U.S. version is too bright and too yellow, but definitely sharper. The color and contrast issues can be somewhat adjusted for on your TV, the Canadian version looked pretty good here, I keep the red down a bit anyway. The minor cropping doesn't bother me when watching, a technical niggle. But I'd have to say I prefer the U.S version for it's sharpness, but IMO the Canadian version is not really bad by any means.

 

[CraigF]

Oh yeah, does anyone know how the AA version of Below stacks up against the U.S. version? I have never actually found the AA disc in a store, so don't know what's on it.

 

[Tom Tsai]

I haven't had time to look through the features for Below but I think it's an identical disc. On the back, it lists for special features:

- Theatrical Trailer
- Deleted Scenes
- "The Process" Featurette
- Feature Commentary With Director and Cast
- Director Commentary For Deleted Scenes

 

[Andy_MT]

the AA edition of Below is very good (regarding PQ). a bit of ee, but overall, lovely jubbly. i suspect this is the same transfer/set of extras used on the US edition.

the only negative thing i could say about the DVD is ... BI-LINGUAL PACKAGING. for the love of god, I AM NOT FRENCH !!!! I AM NOT FRENCH !!! I AM NOT FRENCH !!! and neither are the majority of the population of canada.

have your double sided covers, but have an ENGLISH ONLY side (it is an english speaking film afterall). not english/french and french/english (this solution satisfies no one).

i don't mind bi-lingual packaging on my popcorn. but then again, i didn't pay $20 for it and will throw it away after i've eaten it. i tend to keep a DVD for many years and object strongly to having a compromised product for the sake of a cost cutting exercise. and warner, fox and columbia don't feel the need to inflict society with these BL covers, so why do the likes of AA, paramount, dreamworks, universal ????

yes, the AA version is fine (excluding cover).

 

[Tom Tsai]

^ actually, I don't mind this cover as much as some Universal covers (Catch me if you Can, Back to the Future) where the French title is almost equally big. The French on this cover is written in tiny font below the English title (except for the spine)....doesn't bother me that much. Actually, most of the time, I don't even notice the French anymore.

http://www.dvdsoon.com/servlet/image...80&quality=0.8 vs. http://www.dvdsoon.com/servlet/image...80&quality=0.8

 

[CraigF]

Thanks for the Below info guys...sounds good.

 

[Jonathan Dagmar]

I find it unfair to hold it against a company for what they did in the past. Most of those inferior titles were released a while ago. As for The Fast Runner, it was released half a year before the US release. AA is mainly a distributor and they don't have much resource as other studios...so to expect the best transfer from them is not fair.

That gorssly mis-informed. Alliance Atlatis is huge. It's owner is ones of Canadas richest media barons, right up there with Moses Znaimer and Izzy Asper. In addition to being the exclusive distributor in Canada for several major US studios, they also have extensive television holdings, production companies, and so on. They have vast resources. The fact that they tend to sqander them, by doing a terrible job promoting almost every domestic production they are involved with is quite sad to me. I can not count the number of times I have watched an Alliance distirbuted film and shook my head in despair after having to sit through five absolutly dreadful trailers for what may well have been good Canadian movies, but based on those trailers, I will never have the motivation to find out.

Alliance is rightly subject to the same ciriticisms that any other studio would be.

Now, as for that other major Canadian studio, Lions Gate, Alliance could leanr a lot from them. Lions Gate even spends money of a beautiful film lot with state of the art sound stages and exteriors, while Alliance has old converted warehouses in Toronto.

Bleh.

 

[Tom Tsai]

^ thanks for the info. But my point, as pointed out earlier, is that they're improving...at least on the DVD front. What I was saying was that to hold a company for a few bad DVD releases from a while ago and then refuse to buy any future products from them is a little overboard.

I also take back what I said about The Fast Runner because which transfer is actually preferred is subjective. I understand your criticisms about AA and I agree that some of the things they've done are below expectations and can be better...but I'm grateful that they're at least showing change. I think what I've said is pretty reasonable...I'm definitely not praising them or anything. I'm not going to say anymore in case I get accused of working for AA again. :frowning:

 

[CraigF]

Who *does* own Alliance Atlantis? Not Quebecor who owns TVA is it? I noticed that when I dealt with Universal for the BTTF replacements the envelopes had both Uni and AA on them.

 

[Jonathan Dagmar]

no one owns alliance atlantis, unless something has chnaged recently that I am not aware of. They are at the top of thier own food chain. Atlantis and Alliance used to be separate companies until around 1998 I belive when Alliance bought Atlantis.

If you meant who is the actual person who owns the company, well the name escapes me, but I bet you could find out easily enough.

 

[Rob T]

AA also kind of messed up their 2 TV properties on DVD that I would buy
CSI is in half season sets while Paramount is doing full season sets.
Due South season 1 is missing the pilot episode for some reason. and season 2 is delayed indefinitely.
the LOTR: FOTR: EE set has their logo on the spine. It came off the plastic or something.
and bilingual covers always look awful. :frowning:

 

[Jonathan Dagmar]

I don't mind bilingual covers, most are not bad.

What I do not understand is the reason behind them. VHS never had bilingual covers, so unless there is some obsure law that applies to DVD and not VHS, I just don't see the point.

 

[Rob T]

I don't mind bilingual covers, most are not bad.

What I do not understand is the reason behind them. VHS never had bilingual covers, so unless there is some obsure law that applies to DVD and not VHS, I just don't see the point.

There was some kind of law that was passed in 2000 (or so). Canadiandvdgroup.com has a page about it, but they're down at the moment.

 

[Jonathan Dagmar]

well that's bloody stupid. I really do grow tired of apeasing Quebecors. Can you imagine if everything in the US suddenly had to have spanish on it?