A Few Words About A few words about…™ Unforgiven — in 4k UHD Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[Robert Harris]

The new 4k UHD of Unforgiven is an interesting case study.
Originally released via LaserDisc in 480i, and later in High definition via the original HD, and then Blu-ray, which as I recall, were both single layer. Good for the time in which they were created, and presumably (at least the latter) from a 1080i master.
In 2011, for the film’s 20th anniversary, it was re-issued, possibly from the same master, and on a BD-50, with appropriate extra content, in digi-book form.
Reality aside, one must presume that somewhere between the original production of duping and protection elements, and any work that may have been performed in 2010-11, the original negative was severely damaged.
As promoted, either what was released in 2011 was a restored version of the film, or whomever was marketing the release didn’t like a perceived lack of sizzle, hence a brilliant new “restoration.”
I’ve now had the opportunity to compare three variants of the film.
The 2011 Blu-ray, the 2017 Blu-ray, and the...

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[willyTass]

I hope you can get the Panasonic OLED as it seems to have the edge on the Sony

 

[Robert Harris]

I hope you can get the Panasonic OLED as it seems to have the edge on the Sony

Sony. Same panel as the LG. Different electronics. Smaller form factor on easel.

 

[Robert Crawford]

RAH,

So you're saying the BD release from 2017 in this 4K/UHD release is superior to the 2011 BD Release? Also, that you prefer that 2017 BD up-rezzed to 4K to the 4K/UHD disc? You don't think the HDR helps the 4K/UHD disc over the 2017 BD?

Anyhow, I think it will look great on my OLED65E6P panel.

I'll buy this 4K/UHD release once it discounts down to a more reasonable price for me. It's still $32.59 at Amazon. It needs to be closer to the $20.00 mark before I buy it.

 

[Michel_Hafner]

If it looks too dark in 4K the first suspect is incorrect or not existing tone mapping. That can even apply to an Oled with 700 nits when the disc is mastered for 4000 nits. On projectors with 1/10 or less of the nits required all bets are off without knowing exactly how the stuff is mapped. As long as the nit range from 0-50 or so which is coded as absolute values in HDR (like the rest) is not mapped to the same on the display, image darkness, blacks and shadow detail are affected. Displays that just push everything "somehow" down to the max nit level of the display look usually too dark.

 

[Robert Harris]

If it looks too dark in 4K the first suspect is incorrect or not existing tone mapping. That can even apply to an Oled with 700 nits when the disc is mastered for 4000 nits. On projectors with 1/10 or less of the nits required all bets are off without knowing exactly how the stuff is mapped. As long as the nit range from 0-50 or so which is coded as absolute values in HDR (like the rest) is not mapped to the same on the display, image darkness, blacks and shadow detail are affected. Displays that just push everything "somehow" down to the max nit level of the display look usually too dark.

Which is why the release needs to also be viewed on a panel. For the majority of 4k HDR discs, the Sony projector, in its latest firmware incarnation, does an adequate job of delivering an image.

There are some films, however, that push the boundaries, and this may be one of them.

The Sony OLED runs at 640 nits in Cinema mode, and up to 700 in others. The latest LG can do 800.

QLED can go higher, but drops in overall quality.

This may be one more situation in which Shakespeare was correct.

"The fault... is not in the stars."

There is a huge difference between theatrical presentation and home theater.

While one can add a new Christie 4k to their home theater environment, that occurrence, especially if college tuition and mortgages must be paid, might possibly be divorce inducing.

If post houses are creating discs that must be run at 4000 nits, the question might be, "why?"

Especially when OLED yields the finest quality imagery currently available.

Looking to the near future, when Panasonic delivers its new OLED line, being touted as the new nirvana for certain Hollywood post houses, the number will be 1000 nits at 65", but with no upgrade ability to run Dolby Vision.

 

[Robert Harris]

RAH,

So you're saying the BD release from 2017 in this 4K/UHD release is superior to the 2011 BD Release? Also, that you prefer that 2017 BD up-rezzed to 4K to the 4K/UHD disc? You don't think the HDR helps the 4K/UHD disc over the 2017 BD?

Anyhow, I think it will look great on my OLED65E6P panel.

I'll buy this 4K/UHD release once it discounts down to a more reasonable price for me. It's still $32.59 at Amazon. It needs to be closer to the $20.00 mark before I buy it.

Yes, and yes. But I don't want to raise any red flags regarding the 4k HDR, as it may simply not play nicely with the current abilities of home theater projectors.

I'm presuming that the disc will be superior on a high end panel. I've just not seen it.

The inclusion, in this set of a Blu-ray, derived from the new 4k scan, being uprezzed by the Oppo, allows viewers the potential to have the best of both worlds.

Which one desires with a film of this import.

 

[Michel_Hafner]

Which is why the release needs to also be viewed on a panel. For the majority of 4k HDR discs, the Sony projector, in its latest firmware incarnation, does an adequate job of delivering an image.

Yes, Sony is far better than my current JVC here which forced me to load a custom gamma created with a non JVC tool by some private volunteer. A title like "Arrival" remains a challenge but most look adequate now. If one has the Panasonic UHD player there is a new dynamic range slider when watching HDR natively which can help with too dark looking titles when used in moderation (1-3, not above 5 or 6). Recommended for checking out.

 

[gadgtfreek]

I cant wait to watch this next weekend on my OLED!

 

[Tino]

Looks like a win/win. Love this film. Can't wait to watch it on my LG OLED too.

 

[Robert Harris]

I believe it to be a historically accurate statement, to report that for the past decade, at no time have all parts of the industry been working in any sort of synchronization.

 

[DavidMiller]

I believe it to be a historically accurate statement, to report that for the past decade, at no time have all parts of the industry been working in any sort of synchronization.

I agree completely. As much as I love the 4K world I think everyone gets a different experience. Your projector vs a flat panel and even all the flat panels out there. I do love your quick reviews because they give me a starting point. I have a Calibrated (by Tyler Pruitt) Samsung 85" flat panel at 500nits (a little short of this) it does a good job but doesn't match up to the newer TVs out now.

 

[Tino]

By the way, Anyone know how many nits the LG OLED 65e6 has?

 

[Robert Crawford]

By the way, Anyone know how many nits the LG OLED 65e6 has?

I believe it's 650-700 nits maximum.

 

[Robert Harris]

By the way, Anyone know how many nits the LG OLED 65e6 has?

Officially 600.

Standards spec minimum 540.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Officially 600.

Standards spec minimum 540.

That's right! I own the 65E6 so it should be interesting to see how this disc plays on that panel.

 

[Robert Harris]

That's right! I own the 65E6 so it should be interesting to see how this disc plays on that panel.

Hopefully fine, unless 4000 nits is madatory.

The E6 is a beautiful panel. That's the HTF standard issue, is it not?

All staff gets one?

 

[Tino]

Another dumb question. Is that good?

 

[Robert Crawford]

Hopefully fine, unless 4000 nits is madatory.

The E6 is a beautiful panel. That's the HTF standard issue, is it not?

All staff gets one?

Actually, I think I'm the only HTF Moderator with one. I know Matt Hough HTF Reviewer has one too.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Another dumb question. Is that good?

Tino,

Have you calibrated your panel? I had Robert Zohn calibrate mine before shipping.