UHD Review A Few Words About A few words about...™ - Rio Bravo -- in 4k UHD (1 Viewer)

[Keith Cobby]

Personally, I'm happy that Elvis wasn't cast. It's been a while since I watched Rio Bravo which I must do before deciding whether to buy the 4k.

 

[OliverK]

When Joseph McBride interviewed Howard Hawks for Hawks on Hawks, he commented on how funny that Caan was in El Dorado, and Hawks said it was because he never told Caan that it was a comedy. He may have handled Caan differently partly based on his experiences with Nelson (as well as a few others). Hawks was a professional through and through, both onscreen and off, and I don't think that he really liked directing people. He expected them to do their jobs. So he wasn't prone to manipulating actors, but in this case, he realized that Caan was going to be too obvious "acting" funny, so he opted to get the performance that he wanted another way.

I don't worry about ranking things against each other, so I don't spend too much timing thinking about whether Rio Bravo, El Dorado, or Rio Lobo is the "best" or "worst" compared to each other. They all have their merits, and they all have their weaknesses. But there's no getting around the fact that El Dorado is one of my absolute favorite Hawks films, for a variety of reasons. It's the most Hawksian of all of his westerns, and the ultimate expression of his views on professionalism. He famously made Rio Bravo because he was upset that a professional lawman in High Noon would beg civilians for help, so that provided the primary core that he would reuse in the two films that followed, but the whole notion of Hawksian professionalism is at its most explicit in El Dorado. It's the only one of his westerns where a character actually uses the word "professional" to refer to themselves. (Rio Lobo came close when Wayne's character explains to the former Confederate soldiers why he doesn't hold what they did during the war against them, but it never actually uses the word.) The key is the relationship between Cole Thornton (Wayne) and Nelse McLeod (Christopher George). They're both professional hired guns, not lawmen, and they have equal respect for each other's abilities. The only reason why they end up fighting against each other is that they were hired by opposite sides. They have more in common with each other than they do with the people that they're working for, because they're the only professionals. It's arguably one of the single most important relationships in any Hawks film.

But breaking my own rules and indulging in comparatives for a moment, I do think that El Dorado has the overall edge in terms of casting. Caan is the clear winner over Nelson, and while Dean Martin was excellent, Robert Mitchum was no slouch. I also adore Charlene Holt, and it helps that her character is a much stronger, more Hawksian woman than Feathers in Rio Bravo (that's no knock against Angie Dickinson, just her character). For me, Arthur Hunnicutt is more or less an even trade for Walter Brennan. Add in Michele Carey, who is undeniably easy on the eyes, and you have a better cast overall. Still, the key is Christopher George, and there's no equivalent for that character in Rio Bravo. He's the reason why Hawks expressed the themes of professionalism more clearly in El Dorado than he did in Rio Bravo, so it has always resonated more with me.

They're both great films, in different ways. I wouldn't necessarily call Rio Lobo a great film, but it's an underrated one, even by Hawks himself (who was fairly dismissive of it). Despite some flaws, it does refine the themes from El Dorado in the way that it handles the relationship between Wayne's character and the confederates. While the three films were never intended to serve as a trilogy, they really do reinforce each other in interesting ways, and are best appreciated as a group.

/Edited to clarify my meaning

I saw both El Dorado and Rio Bravo as a kid and not knowing which one came first or what to expect I preferred El Dorado. Ricky Nelson seemed wooden even back then and I really enjoyed the Christopher George character in El Dorado and the way he was shot by John Wayne which seemed pretty realistic to me.

Another bonus is as you say that Charlene Holt has a much better role than Angie Dickinson in Rio Bravo and I actually feel a bit bad for Angie Dickinson every time I watch it.

 

[Robert Harris]

A wonderful discussion, that in some ways helps to illuminate the quality of HTF as a forum for civilized discussion. And quality Admins - across the board - don’t hurt.

Thank you, Robert!

 

[Robert Harris]

I would also posit that Mr. Hawks’ quite extraordinary career began in 1917.

His major works, for those who subscribe to the auteur theory, occurred from the early to mid ‘30s into the late ‘40s - early ‘50s. That was a clean twenty year run over three decades.

The ‘50s -‘60s seemed a bit more tired, for lack of a better word. His works even during that era were still quality films, but if you want to see Pure Hawks, screen the likes of Twentieth Century, Scarface, Bringing Up Baby, Only Angels Have Wings, Sergeant York, To Have and Have Not, The Big Sleep…

And for an education, pick up a copy of Todd McCarthy’s wonderful bio.

 

[sbjork]

To be a good lawman, you have to be a professional. Chance is clearly a good lawman that doesn't want to place non-professionals in harm's way which is why he rejected Bond's request to use his drivers are deputies. However, he was ready to accept Nelson's character as a deputy because he makes his living with his gun. Thus, a professional gunman like Burdette's hired guns.

By that standard, Gary Cooper's character in High Noon was a bad lawman, which was entirely the point that Hawks wanted to make. Yet Hawks wasn't interested in lawmen per se as much as he was in professionalism in general, whether lawmen, pilots, GIs, or yes, gunmen. The problem with Burdette's gunmen was that they weren't necessarily as good at their jobs, and hence, not as professional as they looked. That's why it's so significant that Thornton is himself a gunman, as is McLeod. Even McLeod's own men aren't as much of a professional as he is. Thornton and McLeod are the pinnacle of professionalism.

 

[sbjork]

Christopher george charcter separates the two films for me. That charcter is the missing piece to rio bravo. John Russell and Claude Akins were great bad guys but George has a air of mystery about him. You believe he is good enough to kill wayne and mitchum.

CG- " you didn't give me a chance at all did you"

JW-" your too good to give a chance too"

The fascinating thing about that moment is that Thornton had to cheat to win. He's older, slower, and has a bullet in his back that's slowly crippling him. He asks McLeod to give him a break as a "professional courtesy," and uses it to his advantage to win. Yet McLeod doesn't hold it against him, and after they have the exchange that you quoted, McLeod ends with a bit of a smile and a rueful "I let myself get taken by a one-armed man." He doesn't hold it against Thornton, because he knows that Thornton did what he had to do, and Thornton genuinely meant it when he said that McLeod was too good to give a chance to. It's the two of them paying their professional respects to each other, and they don't hold any of it against each other. They could have been friends, had circumstances worked otherwise.

 

[sbjork]

I saw both El Dorado and Rio Bravo as a kid and not knowing which one came first or what to expect I preferred El Dorado. Ricky Nelson seemed wooden even back then and I really enjoyed the Christopher George character in El Dorado and the way he was shot by John Wayne which seemed pretty realistic to me.

Another bonus is as you say that Charlene Holt has a much better role than Angie Dickinson in Rio Bravo and I actually feel a bit bad for Angie Dickinson every time I watch it.

I love Angie Dickinson dearly, and she's fantastic in Rio Bravo, but Feathers is still a relatively weak Hawksian woman. Maudie (Holt) would eat her for breakfast, as would Hildy Johnson. Or, sticking to the same general era of Hawks' career, Abigail Page (Paula Prentiss) in Man's Favorite Sport?, who was a true unstoppable force of nature.

 

[Robert Crawford]

By that standard, Gary Cooper's character in High Noon was a bad lawman, which was entirely the point that Hawks wanted to make. Yet Hawks wasn't interested in lawmen per se as much as he was in professionalism in general, whether lawmen, pilots, GIs, or yes, gunmen. The problem with Burdette's gunmen was that they weren't necessarily as good at their jobs, and hence, not as professional as they looked. That's why it's so significant that Thornton is himself a gunman, as is McLeod. Even McLeod's own men aren't as much of a professional as he is. Thornton and McLeod are the pinnacle of professionalism.

I think Hawks main problem with High Noon is not completely your thought process. I think he didn’t like the weakness of the townspeople as well as Will Kane when it comes to facing down the threat to their town.

 

[Robert Crawford]

I love Angie Dickinson dearly, and she's fantastic in Rio Bravo, but Feathers is still a relatively weak Hawksian woman. Maudie (Holt) would eat her for breakfast, as would Hildy Johnson. Or, sticking to the same general era of Hawks' career, Abigail Page (Paula Prentiss) in Man's Favorite Sport?, who was a true unstoppable force of nature.

I’m sorry, but how did Maudie show more strength than Feathers? Didn’t Feathers camp out outside of Chance’s room with a shot gun to protect him while he slept.

 

[sbjork]

I think Hawks main problem with High Noon is not your thought process. I think he didn’t like the weakness of the townspeople as well as Will Kane when it comes to facing down the threat to their town.

"Rio Bravo was made because I didn't like a picture called High Noon. I saw High Noon at about the same time I saw another western picture, and we were talking about western pictures, and they asked me if I liked it, and I said, 'Not particularly.' I don't think a good sheriff was going to go running around town like a chicken with his head off asking for help, and finally his Quaker wife had to save him. That isn't my idea of a good western sheriff."

-- Howard Hawks, Hawks on Hawks

Again, the issue was that Cooper's character wasn't a real professional at his job, in this case, a sheriff. Non-professionals like the townspeople were always less interesting to him than the professionals were. There's a good reason why all the non-professional characters are marginalized in all three of these westerns. (As a thinly-veiled remake of Mutiny on the Bounty, Red River is a bit of an outlier, but the themes are still there.)

 

[sbjork]

I’m sorry, but how did Maudie show more strength than Feathers? Didn’t Feathers camp out outside of Chance’s room with a shot gun to protect him while he slept.

Maudie is stronger because of her essential character. Even J.P. Harrah (Mitchum) knew better than to mess with her. She was a no-nonsense businessperson, and a leader in the town who was respected by the townspeople. Feathers is more defined by her attraction to Chance, and her standing guard is because of that attraction. Maudie just plain stood up for what was good, and didn't need a man to make her want to do so.

 

[Robert Crawford]

"Rio Bravo was made because I didn't like a picture called High Noon. I saw High Noon at about the same time I saw another western picture, and we were talking about western pictures, and they asked me if I liked it, and I said, 'Not particularly.' I don't think a good sheriff was going to go running around town like a chicken with his head off asking for help, and finally his Quaker wife had to save him. That isn't my idea of a good western sheriff."

-- Howard Hawks, Hawks on Hawks

Again, the issue was that Cooper's character wasn't a real professional at his job, in this case, a sheriff. Non-professionals like the townspeople were always less interesting to him than the professionals were. There's a good reason why all the non-professional characters are marginalized in all three of these westerns. (As a thinly-veiled remake of Mutiny on the Bounty, Red River is a bit of an outlier, but the themes are still there.)

Your posted quote proved my point that the weakness shown by Kane and thus, the townspeople is what really bothered Hawks and Wayne.

 

[sbjork]

I would also posit that Mr. Hawks’ quite extraordinary career began in 1917.

His major works, for those who subscribe to the auteur theory, occurred from the early to mid ‘30s into the late ‘40s - early ‘50s. That was a clean twenty year run over three decades.

The ‘50s -‘60s seemed a bit more tired, for lack of a better word. His works even during that era were still quality films, but if you want to see Pure Hawks, screen the likes of Twentieth Century, Scarface, Bringing Up Baby, Only Angels Have Wings, Sergeant York, To Have and Have Not, The Big Sleep…

And for an education, pick up a copy of Todd McCarthy’s wonderful bio.

I would add Gerald Mast's book Howard Hawks: Storyteller as another essential book. It makes an interesting companion piece to Hawks on Hawks, because whenever Haws was critical of any of his own films, it usually came down to the fact that he didn't think he ever quite nailed down a good story.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Maudie is stronger because of her essential character. Even J.P. Harrah (Mitchum) knew better than to mess with her. She was a no-nonsense businessperson, and a leader in the town who was respected by the townspeople. Feathers is more defined by her attraction to Chance, and her standing guard is because of that attraction. Maudie just plain stood up for what was good, and didn't need a man to make her want to do so.

I think you’re overthinking the differences in the two movies and characters. Anyhow, I expressed my opinion and I’ll leave it at that.

 

[sbjork]

Your posted quote proved my point that the weakness shown by Kane and thus, the townspeople is what really bothered Hawks and Wayne.

Not sure how, but you're welcome to what you will. Hawks wasn't interested in the townspeople, just the professionals. That's a consistent theme throughout his entire career. The fact that Kane begged for help, and that his wife ended up giving it to him, disgusted Hawks from two different angles. In the matters of the law in that case, civilians of any kind shouldn't have been involved, in the Hawks worldview. They should always take a back seat to the professionals.

 

[Robert Crawford]

Not sure how, but you're welcome to what you will. Hawks wasn't interested in the townspeople, just the professionals. That's a consistent theme throughout his entire career. The fact that Kane begged for help, and that his wife ended up giving it to him, disgusted Hawks from two different angles. In the matters of the law in that case, civilians of any kind shouldn't have been involved, in the Hawks worldview. They should always take a back seat to the professionals.

Then we disagree which is fine.

 

[SuperClark]

I thought it was both brave and touching for Feathers to risk her life standing guard all night regardless of the reason.She had not known Chance very long at all.Quite unselfish since he had not shown any real attraction/affection for her yet.

Feathers 'what do you expect me to do? This isnt' the first time that handbill has come up'
Chance 'well you can stop playing cards.And wearing feathers'.
Feathers 'no,I am not going to do that sheriff.You see thats what i'd do if I was the type of woman you think I am'. Seems like a lady standing up for herself to me.

 

[OliverK]

I love Angie Dickinson dearly, and she's fantastic in Rio Bravo, but Feathers is still a relatively weak Hawksian woman. Maudie (Holt) would eat her for breakfast, as would Hildy Johnson. Or, sticking to the same general era of Hawks' career, Abigail Page (Paula Prentiss) in Man's Favorite Sport?, who was a true unstoppable force of nature.

I think that Angie Dickinson is doing a great job given her imo slightly silly character but there are what I would call more independent characters in El Dorado. Not to go off on even more of a tangent but I happen to think that Paula Prentiss is fantastic in Man's Favorite Sport, would have loved to see more of her with that kind of energy.

Going back to Rio Bravo has anybody commented on the cover? Just kidding, I am happy that we finally got a new master and that it has been put to good use for the production of a UHD.

 

[Robert Harris]

I think that Angie Dickinson is doing a great job given her imo slightly silly character but there are what I would call more independent characters in El Dorado. Not to go off on even more of a tangent but I happen to think that Paula Prentiss is fantastic in Man's Favorite Sport, would have loved to see more of her with that kind of energy.

Going back to Rio Bravo has anybody commented on the cover? Just kidding, I am happy that we finally got a new master and that it has been put to good use for the production of a UHD.

I believe that I made note of the cover artwork, which is far more important than the film or representation in 4k, as it raises the beauty of the WB100 logo, by adapting it, via use of color, texture and tonality, to make it a cohesive part, functioning well within the overall cover design.

I’m certain that someone on YouTube will take a far more professional look and do a proper review of the art, as well as the type and quality of the cellophane or plastic product used to protect the case before sale.

Further in regard to packaging, I understand that a proper book is in the works discussing the many attributes of special packaging for discs, from metal boxes and solid inserts to hold multiple Steelbooks, down to the lowly slipcover, which does nothing more than replicate the artwork within, whilst decimating our forests and adding to the problems of climate change.

 

[lark144]

I would also posit that Mr. Hawks’ quite extraordinary career began in 1917.

His major works, for those who subscribe to the auteur theory, occurred from the early to mid ‘30s into the late ‘40s - early ‘50s. That was a clean twenty year run over three decades.

The ‘50s -‘60s seemed a bit more tired, for lack of a better word. His works even during that era were still quality films, but if you want to see Pure Hawks, screen the likes of Twentieth Century, Scarface, Bringing Up Baby, Only Angels Have Wings, Sergeant York, To Have and Have Not, The Big Sleep…

And for an education, pick up a copy of Todd McCarthy’s wonderful bio.

Well, Mr. Harris, Hawks' films of the 30's and 40's are certainly faster paced, with overlapping dialogue, and may be preferable and more distinctive and seemingly "original" to the ones that came later, as they are slower, more dependent on improvisation and also recycle dialogue, plot points and characters from many of his earlier films, but I'm not certain I'd classify "The Big Sky", "Gentlemen Prefer Blondes", "Rio Bravo", "Hatari", or even "Red Line 7000" as "minor" Hawks. I'd argue those films are as sublime as any combination of images and sounds ever crafted in the cinema. Those films are not only slower paced, they're more elagiaic, more aware of the passage of time, of the ravages of aging, of the mistakes one makes and how that can reverberate, so the recycling Hawks does comes across to this viewer with more depth of feeling than before. His later comedies, like "Man's Favorite Sport?" are not only slower paced, there's a sense of eternity peeking in, as well as an added vulnerability. Cary Grant, in "His Girl Friday" is the epitomize of sang froid. No matter how many awful things he pulls on Rosalind Russell, even putting her in jail on phoney charges, it never reflects negatively on him, in terms of the way the film and the audience views him, as that fast pace and overlapping dialogue, in addition to Grant's overwhelming charm, define the style of the picture. Yes, it's wonderful, a supreme example of style over substance, a kind of pure, almost abstract kind of cinema--"The Big Sleep" is another-- but also I would argue, a bit superficial. Rock Hudson, in "Man's Favorite Sport?" on the other hand, can't seem to get anything right. His humanity eludes him, causes catastrophe after catastrophe. This viewpoint and stylistic manner is just as Hawksian, it's only deeper and more human and truthful, hence slower. Of course, we want to be entertained, we don't want to be told we all get slower and more accident-prone as we age, but I would argue that "Man's Favorite Sport" is just as entertaining as "His Girl Friday" only different in meaning and style, but still all Pure Hawks. That, in fact, is one of the bedrocks of the auteur theory as stated by Truffaut, that the personal and stylistic aspects of a major director's films remains consistent and worthy of study even if it's not on the highest level as some of his earlier work. Though I would argue that some of Hawks' later films, though seemingly "minor", have to appraised differently than the earlier ones, and in that regard, are just as profound, and in some cases, for instance, "Red Line 7000" vs. the "The Crowd Roars" much greater.