A Few Words About A few words about...™ Sweet Charity - in Blu-ray (1 Viewer)

[Rob_Ray]

It played on NBC in primetime some time in the mid '70s.

 

[roxy1927]

I once asked Frank Rowley one of New York's best programers and manager of the very popular Regency why he never showed SC and he said there wasn't enough of an audience for it. I was stunned. If there was ever an audience for it is was at this beloved revival house. And he showed the complete Star!!

 

[roxy1927]

The New York times original review says the film's length is 157 minutes. I assumed they were including the entr'acte and the exit music. It also lists a date as April 2nd 1969. That means the New York premier was April 1st. However the world premiere was in Boston so that means it opened in March. also bluray.com labeled this a 4K restoration though on this site it said it was a 4K transfer. Not having any technical knowledge of these things I'm not really sure what the difference is. Also it lists the length of the film at a hundred and thirty minutes. A bit of confusion there.

 

[verneaux]

I was barely into the commentary before calling bs. Elinger claims that this being Fosse’s first job as director he was trying to learn everything on the fly and didn’t even know what a ‘shot’ was. Fosse had performed in films for years. He choreographed the dances for the films Damn Yankees, Pajama Game, and My Sister Eileen. All that work and he never encountered the concept of a ‘shot’? Please.

 

[haineshisway]

The New York times original review says the film's length is 157 minutes. I assumed they were including the entr'acte and the exit music. It also lists a date as April 2nd 1969. That means the New York premier was April 1st. However the world premiere was in Boston so that means it opened in March. also bluray.com labeled this a 4K restoration though on this site it said it was a 4K transfer. Not having any technical knowledge of these things I'm not really sure what the difference is. Also it lists the length of the film at a hundred and thirty minutes. A bit of confusion there.

Everything is called a 4K "restoration" these days, so that the word has become meaningless. This didn't need a "restoration" - it had a 4K transfer, period. And even a 4K transfer is ultimately meaningless unless you know what the SOURCE for the transfer is. You can do a 4K transfer of 8mm film - won't make it look good, but you can do it. It's all gotten quite silly, IMO.

 

[KPmusmag]

Did it ever play on primetime network television in the 70s? I don't recall...I also don't recall ever really seeing it in syndication in the Big Cable 80s when everything was showing on television. I don't recall seeing it all until AMC started playing it.

It did play on local TV in L.A. late 70s/early 80s. I first saw it on a late night showing on one of the local channels. My parents had the soundtrack LP, so I already was familiar with the music. Even pan/'scan with commercials I loved it. I also recall it seemed like the film was kind of beat up, I recall scratches and jumps etc.

 

[Erik_H]

Following up on the comment about the premiere of "Sweet Charity." The world premiere was in Boston on February 11, 1969 at the Sack Music Hall and Saxon theaters and the reserved seat engagement at the Saxon (now the Emerson Majestic) began the following day. The NY premiere at the Rivoli was on April 1 as noted above. Boston was an odd choice for the world premiere of such an NYC-centric film; the clout of exhibitor Ben Sack probably had something to do with it (several of Hitchcock's Universal films, including "Torn Curtain" and "Frenzy," also had their world premieres at a Sack theater in Boston).

 

[Matt Hough]

I remember one of the networks (maybe ABC) had late night coverage of the Hollywood premiere. All I remember from it was the theater that was showing it (Grauman's?) had piped Shirley MacLaine's "I'm a Brass Band" onto the pavement while the emcee interviewed celebrities going in to see it.

 

[breeezer]

My father owned a small-town movie theater in the Midwest, and when "Sweet Charity" played there, I was a teenager who looked through the press book and found you could order a free promotional album of one-sided interviews. These were recordings of cast interviews with scripts, so that local radio announcers could read the questions and Shirley MacLaine (or whoever) would answer on the album. Wish I had kept that album now!

 

[haineshisway]

I remember one of the networks (maybe ABC) had late night coverage of the Hollywood premiere. All I remember from it was the theater that was showing it (Grauman's?) had piped Shirley MacLaine's "I'm a Brass Band" onto the pavement while the emcee interviewed celebrities going in to see it.

Not the Chinese - the Pantages.

 

[Jesse Skeen]

I have an off-air recording of it from WUHF in Rochester in 1982, they let the first part go a LONG time (30 minutes or more) with no commercials. Need to transfer it to DVD and see if there’s any noteworthy cuts or differences; commercials were left in and the station signs off afterwards.

 

[Matt Hough]

Not the Chinese - the Pantages.

Thanks for the info!

 

[JPCinema]

It might have been in this thread but it The Rich Man's Frug out of sync?

 

[warnerbro]

The good news is it looks and sounds beautiful! It looks like 70mm. The colors and detail are incredible perfection. You can see every freckle on Shirley MacLaine. I enjoy the vintage documentaries and value their inclusion. It's strange that on the roadshow version, they have the same title card and black section that is on the bootleg version on YouTube and the previous versions -- minus the music! It's like they just decided to leave it off. Very disappointing. Also, I don't understand why Kino has decided to use commentators lately who only want to discuss the psychological and social meanings of the story and give you very little background on the actual production or the actors. I don't think she even mentioned Stubby Kaye's name.

 

[PMF]

[...] I don't think she even mentioned Stubby Kaye's name.

A bonafide commentary, as spoken by a true theater and film historian, would have made mention of Stubby Kaye; especially in light of his singing a major number. Thankfully, though, we do have an essay by Ms. Kirgo.

 

[haineshisway]

It might have been in this thread but it The Rich Man's Frug out of sync?

Someone said something about it, but several of us don't find it out of synch at all, which leads me to believe it's a player issue.

 

[moovtune]

I saw two or three sections of dance numbers that I thought had questionable sync also (dancers against the music), but then after two or three cuts it seemed back in again - so I think that's probably how it always was.

 

[KPmusmag]

I listened to this over headphones, and the 2.0 on the roadshow disc is mono (!) but the 2.0. on the alternate disc is stereo. It looks fantastic, though. In the 5.1 track, I feel that I am hearing more of the low brass and woodwinds than in previous editions.

 

[roxy1927]

I'm the one that mentioned it had its world premiere in Boston assuming that it was in March as the NY premiere was on April 1st.
That's a pretty long surprising gap between its world premiere and NY premiere. And then when did it open in LA? Wouldn't the box office reception in Boston have affected the mood at the Rivoli on opening night?
Since when did NY have to wait so long for a premiere? The biggest films had their world premieres in the city.
Somebody on bluray.com had the best solution to the presentation of this film. Clearly some of these people who release this stuff should talk to the fans who know the films better than they do.
He said the first half should have been on disc one. Then the two versions of the second half on disc two. This way you would have had the entire roadshow film and just choose which second half you wanted to see. Why couldn't the people at Kino have thought of this? And nobody likes the commentator. Couldn't they have chosen people who know something about the film like MacLaine or Rivera or Kelly or musical expert Peter Filchia who did the notes for the soundtrack cd?
At least they should pull it and put out the entire roadshow version.
Why has Kino remained mum? Are they too embarrassed to say anything?
And I'd like to give a shout out to somebody who is never mentioned. Ever. But did quite a spectacular job on the film, the musical supervisor and conductor Joseph Gershenson. His work is electrifying. And the guy started out conducting orchestras accompanying silent films in 1920! That's an impressive career. And he was nominated along with Previn for Millie.

 

[bluirv]

Okay, finally we can hear about the French vs. the Kino. The French loses - while it looks very good, it is clearly not a new transfer - there's gate weave in the opening credits, and the grain is clunky, especially on the opticals, of which there are many. You don't notice this UNTIL you compare it to the Kino - which is clearly a new 4K transfer (NOT restoration) - grain looks like it should (LIGHT), sharper image, and everything looking a movie.

Sound is another story. It's fine when you boost it about 10db - I have my volume set the same for every movie - occasionally I have to adjust up or down a db or 2, but this one's mastered hugely low - baffling really. Once you turn the sound up, it's fine and pretty much similar to the French, which doesn't need to be turned up.

Another maddening thing, a packaging thing I will NEVER EVER understand... You open the case - there's a booklet on the left and a blu-ray on the right. Naturally, the assumption would be that that's the roadshow and what you want to watch. It's not - it's the "alternate" version sans overture - yes, it's stated on the disc but no one is going to look at the disc. In fact, you don't even notice that there's a disc under the booklet until you actually remove the booklet. Kino is not the only guilty party here - but it's just dumb, IMO - minor, yes, but irritating, yes.

Nitpicks aside, I can't imagine anyone not being happy with the quality of this - and yes, it is a major screw-up not to have the Intermission and exit music - words have meanings and ROADSHOW means the ENTIRE ROADSHOW experience start to finish. I surmise Kino doesn't know the film or what the Roadshow was and so just took what Universal gave them and didn't know enough to ask for those musical items.

I had the exact same problem adjusting the sound between the dialogue and musical numbers. Should we ask for remaster of the audio track?