a Classical Music discussion (1 Viewer)

[rob kilbride]

Which Pines has the most massive final movement? I love my Maazel but haven't heard many others because I'm happy with it. I usually don't rebuy pieces unless one version is not totally satisfying. Unless its a different version like the original orchestration of Rhapsody in Blue.

 

[rob kilbride]

Hey does anyone else have any non-core repertory recommendations? I'm always looking to discover new compsosers. I also enjoy cd's of arrangements of composers works especially if its definitive in some sort of way. Like arrangements by another reputable composer or by one of the composers contemporaries. Here's some examples I like: (I already mentioned some)
Raymond Scott The Chesterfield Arrangements (Raymond Scott's Quintette pieces arranged for the Paul Whiteman Band)(really a big band jazz album)
Kurt Weill Life, Love , and Laughter (authorized arrangements for dance band)
Offenbach La Gaite Parisienne (Ballet arranged by Manuel Rosenthal)
Stokowski's arrangement of Bach
On Naxos there is a cd of Brahms' Hungarian Dances arranged by Joachim for violin and piano.
Here's a cool cd but it appears to be out of print: Mozart Sinfonie en Harmonie(Mozart arranged for eight and nine part wind harmony by Carl Andreas Gopfert(1768-1818)
Here's two I own but haven't listen too all the way through but recieved perfect or near perfect marks from Classicstoday.com : Naxos Franz Liszt Transcriptions of Ferdinand David's Bunte Reihe 10 Artistic merit 9 sound quality, and Liszt's Piano Transcriptions of Beethoven's Symphonies 2 and 5 10/10.
I also enjoy Naxos 4 hand piano versions of The Rite of Spring and The Planets.
So does anyone have any offbeat stuff or cool arrangement cd's to recommend?

Edited because a colon and an open parenthesis created a frown face I didn't intend!

 

[Jack Briggs]

Finally something we agree on.

Now, gentlemen, enough of this bickering!
Also, I have the Antal Dorate Church Windows too! Fine performance, though the Mercury Living Presence sound doesn't quite live up to its usual hype. Ancient Airs and Dances, too--I love it; more sophisticated a piece than most of his work.
More lush orchestration. Turn your pages to the Romantic era. Zero in on its heart: Tchaikovsky's Symphony No. 6 in B minor, the Pathetique. How can you get more Romantic-era than that?
Here's a performance I like more than just about any other, and it might surprise you: Otto Klemperer and the Philharmonia on Angel/EMI! How about that?
(Start thinking ahead to piano concerti. Beethoven's Emperor--but after we do the Tchaikovsky symphony.)

 

[Jan H]

Jack,

Maybe this work deserves it's own thread. I will start by posing the question: Do the inhabitants of the Polar Ice Cap (the Russians, Norwegians, Finns, etc) own this symphony? Or, can some other European lay claim to mastery of the Pathetique? Perhaps an American conductor? To end what little suspense I've created, Janson's and Mravinsky's have the prized place in my collection, but I'm willing to be persuaded. JH

 

[Stefan A]

No, I don't think many average people would like Stravinsky. Not enough immediate gratification - which is what average people want.
I don't think that a person has to be a performing musician to understand music. Perhaps I suggested that in the heat of battle , but I don't believe that. I do, however, think that a performing musician listens for more specific reasons. Also, I believe performing musicians tend to be more limited in there preferences towards composers, ensembles, and interpretations. As I read posts in this thread from people who I am guessing are not serious performing musicians - if at all - I notice some things.
1. You have much larger collections and listen regularly to a more varied list of composers.
2. You have stronger opinions about interpretation rather than performance level.
3. You seem to have (with some people) a more scolarly understanding of the music.
Not to say that performing musicians don't have any of those attributes. There are always exceptions. As a serious performing musician, I:
1. have a smaller, more focused collection of composers and cd's.
2. focus more on the performance level than interpretation.
3. know the music more than the info
So, I think the performing musician just hears things different. Certainly not the only type of people who can understand music. So, I say to all of you music appreciaters, keep it up. It keeps us performing musicians in business
Tchaik 6 - Bernstein - NYP (newer recording) for the intense feeling he puts in it. I don't even own the recording, but have heard it. Of course, I also like Solti and Chicago for reasons explained above and in another thread.

 

[Mike Broadman]

FWIW, I'm an "average" listener (no musical training, don't listen to much classical), and I love Stravinsky. The dynamics, the dissonance- it's great!

But, then again, if most "average" listeners favor the Romantic period, I don't hold to that, either. While I certainly enjoy it, I lean more towards Bach and the like. In fact, because of counterpoint and the like, it seems to me that Stravinsky is sort of extending the Bach legacy, which is why they are my two favorites.

 

[rob kilbride]

FWIW, I'm an "average" listener (no musical training, don't listen to much classical), and I love Stravinsky. The dynamics, the dissonance- it's great!

For people who are not classical fans I'm guessing your the acception not the rule. Just go to a cd store and you'll see that there are simply more cd's available from romantic era composers than anything else. And I'm guessing that you probably like intense music in the other genres you appreciate.

 

[rob kilbride]

Come on now doesn't anybody have any unusual recommendations or does everybody only listen to core repertoire?

 

[Justin Doring]

"Just go to a cd store and you'll see that there are simply more cd's available from romantic era composers than anything else."

I have to disagree. Go into a good music store, and while you'll find many Romantic Period CDs, you'll find just as many, if not more, Classical Period CDs. What makes this so astounding is that the Romantic Period had many more composers, especially major ones, than the Classical Period. Think about it: the Classical Period is primarily made up of the works of Haydn, Mozart, and Beethoven, while the Romantics have dozens of major composers.

"Come on now doesn't anybody have any unusual recommendations or does everybody only listen to core repertoire?"

"Unusual repertoire" is a subjective term. Gustav Mahler might be offbeat to one person and mainstream to another. The same for someone like Virgil Thomson. What "war-horses" do you like so that we can further help you with "off the beaten path" works and composers?

 

[rob kilbride]

Unusual repertoire" is a subjective term. Gustav Mahler might be offbeat to one person and mainstream to another. The same for someone like Virgil Thomson.
What "war-horses" do you like so that we can further help you with "off the beaten path" works and composers?

I would consider Mahler to certainly be core repertoire because his Symphonic Cycles have been so ofter recorded and I was under the impression were very popular. Virgil Thomson I would say is not. At Amazon.com I just searched for Virgil Thomson and there ar 51 results whereas Gustav Mahler returned 775! I guess I certainly mean the stuff even everyday Joes like like Beethoven, Bach, Tchaikovsky, as well as the stuff that is very common in more serious listeners collections like Prokofiev, Sibelius, Shostakovich, Mahler, and the best known opera composers like Wagner, Rossini, Puccini, Verdi. The website classicstoday.com frequently has uncommon stuff for their disc of the month. Last month's was an opera, The Good Soldier Schweik by Robert Kurka. In previous month's there have been cd's by Vorisek and Jacob Druckman. Someone recommended to me the 5 cd set of Player Piano Studies by Conlon Nancarrow which I haven't listened to all of yet but what I have heard has been very interesting and bizarre! I've actually discovered lots of unusual stuff there. I'm guessing I'm asking what stuff by what composers do you guys have that you're reasonably sure most of the rest of us are not familiar with?

 

[Justin Doring]

"Well that's my point, there are obviously more popular Romantic composers than any other era."
I didn't write "popular," I wrote "major." There's an important difference!

 

[Jack Briggs]

The reason more Romantic works are recorded ad nauseum is due to the simple reason of "hummable" thematic overload. Think Tchaikovsky--think Romeo and Juliet Fantasy Overture. He's accessible to a mainstream audience. We're not talking Anton Webern here. Simple as that.

Hell, I have my less-than-lofty moments. I love the Brahms c-minor symphony. Who doesn't, really?

But that doesn't mean I can't enjoy something more challenging.

 

[RogerB]

Come on now doesn't anybody have any unusual recommendations or does everybody only listen to core repertoire?

How about Charles Ives (1874-1954)? I just love his Central Park in the Dark.

 

[Zen Butler]

Tchaikovsky's Symphony No. 6 in B minor, the Pathetique. How can you get more Romantic-era than that?

by it's theme? or essence. Do I personally think that No. 6 is the Romantic Era wrapped in a nutshell. I sure hope not. I have over time appreciated Brahms work much more. See: Violin Sonata No. 3 (Dmi) , his symphonies were great, I just love No. 4 (Emi) , and have always love his Requiem. Though not my favorite period, I acknowledge the symphony's height, but will not discount the piano work of Chopin and Liszt and my personal favorite of that era is still Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique yes "mainstream" but I know what I like.

 

[Justin Doring]

Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique sounds like it's generations more modern than Beethoven's 9th, and yet it was only written a couple years later! Symphonie Fantastique ushered in Romanticism in my opinion.

NP: John Barry's Monte Walsh

 

[Zen Butler]

Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique sounds like it's generations more modern than Beethoven's 9th, and yet it was only written a couple years later! Symphonie Fantastique ushered in Romanticism in my opinion.

I agree totally, and thanks for replying, it seems most of us have been talking to ourselves.

 

[Stephen R]

As someone who's just getting in to classical music (yes, John Williams (moreover, film music in general) was a "gateway drug"), I was having a grand time reading this thread. And then -- it just stopped dead. How does it happen that so many people seem to be rigorously discussing multiple different things, amassing four pages of posts in a mere two weeks, and then, BLAM, everyone just halts? Was this thread moved somewhere?
Help me out here, folks.

 

[Seth_S]

Agreed. However, most recordings don't do full justice to Berlioz's vision. John Eliot Gardiner's period instrument recording (recorded in the very place the symphony premiered) is quite a roller coaster ride. You haven't heard the Dies irae untill you've heard it with the serpent and ophicleide.

As for Holst, never found him that interesting.

With Dvorak, I always liked his 7th and 8th symphonies better than the 9th. Best conductor of Dvorak's music, George Szell hands down. Only Kubelik comes close.

On John Williams:
Total hack. Someone let me know when he writes some *original* music.

Someone mention their Mahler Cycle, so here's mine

Symphony No.1 - Kubelik/BRSO on DG
Symphony No.2 - Mehta/VPO on Decca
Symphony No.3 - Horenstein/LSO on Unicorn
Symphony No.4 - Szell/Cleveland on Sony
Symphony No.5 - Barbirolli/NPO on EMI
Symphony No.6 - Szell/Cleveland on Sony
Symphony No.7 - Abaddo/CSO on DG
Symphony No.8 - Kubelik/BRSO on DG
Symphony No.9 - Szell/Cleveland from the Szell Centenial Box Set
Das Lied von der Erde - Haitink/Concertgebouw

 

[Seth_S]

Personally I can't stand Solti's Mahler (and him as a conductor in general). I find that he conducts Mahler as if it were Bruckner or Wagner, big and loud.

Mehta's 2nd with the VPO on Decca is pretty good. If you prefer a low key 2nd, rhythmically tight, without the drama Lenny and Rattle conger up, go for it. Another great 2nd done in the same fashion is Kubelik/BRSO.

 

[Justin Doring]

Well I'm glad to see someone resurrected (no pun intended) this most excellent thread.
Where did we leave off? Oh, yes, John Williams. I wouldn't say he's a hack (that would be Horner), but he is a more traditional film composer as opposed to a true innovator like Jerry Goldsmith. If you like Williams there are a lot of classical composers that you will like. I'd start with Holst's The Planets on Penguin with Dutoit and Montreal.
I like Dvorak's 7th and 8th Symphonies very much, especially the 8th, but I do like his 9th the best simply because of all the wonderful, and yes humable, themes.
I'm somewhat ashamed to admit it, but my current Mahler collection is heavily weighted toward sound quality.
Das klagende Lied (Thomas, Shaguch, DeYoung, Moser/San Francisco)
Lieder eines fahrenden Gesellen and Fruhe Lieder (Hampson, Lutz, Berio)
Symphony No. 1 (Bernstein/New York Philharmonic) (SACD)
Symphony No. 1 (Chailly/Concertgebouw)***
Symphony No. 2 (Litton, Murphy, Lang/Dallas) (SACD)
Symphony No. 3 (Salonen and Larson/Los Angeles)
Symphony No. 4 (Rattle and Roocroft/Birmingham)
Symphony No. 5 (Zander/Philharmonia) (SACD)
Symphony No. 6 (Zander/Philharmonia) (SACD)
Symphony No. 6 (Boulez/Wiener Philharmoniker)
Symphony No. 7 (Thomas/London Symphony)
Symphony No. 8 (Abbado, Studer, McNair, Rost, Otter/Berlin Philharmonic)
Das Lied von der Erde (Oue, DeYoung, Villars/Minnesota)
Symphony No. 9 (Boulez/Chicago)
Symphony No. 10 (Inbal/Radio-Sinfonie-Orchester Frankfurt)
I'm extremely pleased with my 1sts, 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6ths, 7th, and 10th I'm still searching for a good performance of the 2nd, and a good sounding 8th and 9th with a good performance, so suggestions are welcome.
Oh, and I don't like Mehta OR Solti for Mahler!
NP: Suzanne Vega's "Knight Moves"