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Things I've noticed about HTF since returning.


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#41 of 108 RickER

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Posted July 25 2010 - 01:27 PM

Hi Jack!


For some reason the movie Airplane comes to mind every time i see that? Hmm...



#42 of 108 Mike Frezon

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Posted July 25 2010 - 04:08 PM



Originally Posted by DaveF 

Welcome back, jack. :)

Words are thrown out like spaghetti on the wall. Bit no one wants to have a proper spaghetti dinner ( mmmm... Tortured metaphor ....)


"Tortured" is being kind.  /img/vbsmilies/htf/laugh.gif


There's Jessie the yodeling cowgirl. Bullseye, he's Woody's horse. Pete the old prospector. And, Woody, the man himself.Of course, it's time for Woody's RoundUp. He's the very best! He's the rootinest, tootinest cowboy in the wild, wild west!


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#43 of 108 DaveF

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Posted July 26 2010 - 02:32 AM

Thankfully, Mike you're always kind ;)

#44 of 108 Michael Reuben

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Posted July 26 2010 - 02:41 AM

Dave, I think your observation hits the point precisely. May I suggest a slight variation of the metaphor?


People are more interested in having a food fight than sharing a meal.


"Tortured" metaphor or not, this is the thought I took away from all that spaghetti. /img/vbsmilies/htf/smile.gif


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#45 of 108 Sam Posten

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Posted July 26 2010 - 04:51 AM

Has anyone mentioned silica yet?  You can't have HTF nostalgia without silica....


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#46 of 108 DaveF

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Posted July 26 2010 - 05:34 AM

Michael, that'll work too :)

My specific experience is peole don't want to "talk" , they want to make quips. And perhaps be affirmed in followups from "friends" but they don't want to "discuss".

That's simplistic, but typing on an iPhone doesn't lend itself to much more. And that might be part of the puzzle too :)

#47 of 108 Mike Frezon

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Posted July 26 2010 - 05:37 AM



Originally Posted by Sam Posten 

Has anyone mentioned silica yet?  You can't have HTF nostalgia without silica....


But in a case of irony, you really can't have HTF nostalgia with silica because it sucks it all up.


There's Jessie the yodeling cowgirl. Bullseye, he's Woody's horse. Pete the old prospector. And, Woody, the man himself.Of course, it's time for Woody's RoundUp. He's the very best! He's the rootinest, tootinest cowboy in the wild, wild west!


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#48 of 108 Jack Briggs

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Posted July 26 2010 - 06:04 AM


 Jack, are you still working with print (or other) media? 


Yes, sir. I work at California largest newspaper for the legal profession. I am an ... editor!



#49 of 108 Al.Anderson

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Posted July 26 2010 - 06:13 AM


 We have really been working hard to curb just that very thing. I can honestly say that the moderation of posts has really lessened since we have moved to Huddler.


Yes, I do admit I’ve noticed a change of late; I can’t quite place when.  In fact, Parker recently posted in a thread with a dirty word (“rip”) that previously would have had those guys in Brazil dropping through the ceiling.  But that doesn’t change history.  Many people went to that other place (they don’t mention us, I’m not mentioning them).  For others, the whip left a lasting impression and they just don’t bother. 

 

Quote:
 But in any case, the hi-def format war ended almost two and a half years ago.

 



I didn’t mention the high-def war as a current complaint - I agree it’s long dead - but as an example of where it really went south.  Some people replied that those threads were shut down when people got out of hand.  But that’s not accurate, as even objectively comparing the two formats was prohibited.  I only point this out in hopes that we don’t make the same mistake if we ever get the good fortune of another technology showdown.  (And BTW, I’m all for zero tolerance of abusive entries.)


Let me open the aperture a bit - in general I think people like to debate, and maintaining the site on the edge of chaos will drive more participation that keeping it tame.  Here’s a thought, maybe we need topic moderators (I’m thinking shills, but being polite). People to start threads and keep them going on trendy technology and film topics.  Find those old trouble makers, get a few that have matured just a bit, and put them to good use.


P.S. One last point, I meant what I said, but I was also just having fun on a Friday.  Remeber when Friday's would bring an avalanche of posts as everyone was avoiding real work?



#50 of 108 Adam Gregorich

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Posted July 26 2010 - 06:42 AM




Originally Posted by Al.Anderson 

I didn’t mention the high-def war as a current complaint - I agree it’s long dead - but as an example of where it really went south.  Some people replied that those threads were shut down when people got out of hand.  But that’s not accurate, as even objectively comparing the two formats was prohibited.  I only point this out in hopes that we don’t make the same mistake if we ever get the good fortune of another technology showdown.  (And BTW, I’m all for zero tolerance of abusive entries.)


Let me open the aperture a bit - in general I think people like to debate, and maintaining the site on the edge of chaos will drive more participation that keeping it tame.  Here’s a thought, maybe we need topic moderators (I’m thinking shills, but being polite). People to start threads and keep them going on trendy technology and film topics.  Find those old trouble makers, get a few that have matured just a bit, and put them to good use.


P.S. One last point, I meant what I said, but I was also just having fun on a Friday.  Remeber when Friday's would bring an avalanche of posts as everyone was avoiding real work?


I disagree on some of your memories about the format war.  I think we for a time encouraged people to objectively compare the two formats, the problem was an objective thread like that wouldn't stay objective for longer than 2 minutes before a horde of unobjective people from both sides would descend on it, turning it into just another format war thread.


I also want to thank Parker for a lot of his comments in this tread and not to take away from Jack at all, but I noticed Tim Glover has resurfaced recently too.


As to the traffic slowdown in some areas, HTF owners are open to suggestions.  As some have noticed, things have loosened up a bit with moderation, you still have to have a first name, not do personal attacks and not talk politics, religion or bootlegging which are all reasonable and are hopefully lead to a positive forum experience for everyone.  Its created the culture where studios feel comfortable posting again.  We have been working hard to get more studio involvement.  Fox is frequently on the boards posting and always listening.  We are working with Paramount on posting more, but they read the forum daily and what you say is sent up the line on daily and weekly reports.  Shout Factory currently has their toe in the water as well.



#51 of 108 Michael Reuben

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Posted July 26 2010 - 06:43 AM

Why limit yourself to Friday? Let's have some fun on a Monday. /img/vbsmilies/htf/smile.gif


Originally Posted by Al.Anderson 

I didn’t mention the high-def war as a current complaint - I agree it’s long dead - but as an example of where it really went south.  Some people replied that those threads were shut down when people got out of hand.  But that’s not accurate, as even objectively comparing the two formats was prohibited.  I only point this out in hopes that we don’t make the same mistake if we ever get the good fortune of another technology showdown.  (And BTW, I’m all for zero tolerance of abusive entries.)



Since, as you say, the format war is dead, let's use it as an example. Now, I largely sat that one out until the very end, but I remember it well, and I remember how it went. The pattern was typical, and we still see it on other issues today (though, thankfully, not on the same scale).


Let's imagine that you, Al, and another member -- we'll call him "Bob", so that we have "A" and "B" -- want to have a serious discussion "objectively comparing" Blu-ray and HD DVD. Off you go, everyone's polite, and it's a wonderful thread.


But you're not alone for long. Very quickly you're joined by a couple dozen other participants. There are C through N, who are Blu-ray partisans ("Blu Bois", as their opponents like to call them). And then there are O through Z, who are HD DVD partisans ("red ants", as the Blu Bois say). These folks are not interested in objective comparisons. At best, they're like DaveF's spaghetti-throwers and quipsters; at worst, they're angry, vicious attack dogs who make talk radio sound like Miss Manners.


That nice little thread you and Bob started quickly swells to multiple pages, and most of the posts are from C through Z. It's almost entirely recrimination and name-calling. Reported posts are pouring in to the owners as each side complains about the other side's conduct -- and as non-participating members complain about the whole darn flame-war --  and the owners say to the moderators, "Didn't we hire you guys to prevent this sort of thing?"


The above not only could happen, but it did happen. (Adam posted while I was finishing this post, and he remembers it too.) So now, imagine you're the moderator. What would you do?


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#52 of 108 Adam Gregorich

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Posted July 26 2010 - 07:04 AM

Michael's example was better than mine.  That's exactly how I remember it.  We were one of the few sites that were trying to encourage objectivity by aggressively moderating and worst case banning the worst "partisans" who engaged in continual personal attacks on both sides in an attempt to try to keep things objective. Other sites would ban you for expressing your desire or even objective info about the "wrong" format from the perspective of the site.  I was a moderator at the time and we discussed the possibility of a "war talk" area, but were afraid that any disputes in that area between members would just follow them to other areas, and it would be a bad precedent to set.  At the end of the day quality over quantity was the winner.  While I'm sure it cost us members and traffic I think it was the right call (although I might not of at the time....I can't remember what my position was).



#53 of 108 Jack Briggs

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Posted July 26 2010 - 07:31 AM

It was at the very beginning of the format war that, for a number of other reasons, I had to cease posting here. And what is being described sounds like so many other thread attempts gone bad from the days of yore. I am sort of glad I missed out on the Blu-ray-vs.-HD-DVD mess.



#54 of 108 Walter Kittel

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Posted July 26 2010 - 07:56 AM



So now, imagine you're the moderator. What would you do?


Ban with extreme prejudice.  Bwaha-ha-ha.  [snarls and twirls moustache].


Mostly joking.  Mostly.


- Walter.


Fidelity to the source should always be the goal for Blu-ray releases.

#55 of 108 DaveF

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Posted July 26 2010 - 08:44 AM

ArsTechnica has a "BattleFront" forum specifically for arguing these technical 'religious' wars. It's separate from the main forums, which are moderated free of such business. Perhaps that would be appropriate here.

I've been going back and forth in am Android phone thread about iPhone vs Sndroid phones. The back and forth is fun and it's all good natured. But ihave worried that it might keep people away from having more productive discussions about buying and using their android phones. A clear 'battlefront' would allow for these sorts of arguments while keeping main threads free for more productive uses.

#56 of 108 Rob Willey

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Posted July 26 2010 - 08:58 AM

Welcome back Jack.  I too have significantly cut back on my posting activities over the last few years mostly because I hardly go to the movies anymore.


But seriously, two pages welcoming Jack back and not one mention of the word "Kubrick"!?  Something's just not right...


Rob


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#57 of 108 Jack Briggs

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Posted July 26 2010 - 09:21 AM

Not only that, Rob, but I have another director's film featured in my avatar. Go figure.



#58 of 108 Cees Alons

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Posted July 26 2010 - 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jack Briggs 

Not only that, Rob, but I have another director's film featured in my avatar. Go figure.




But isn't that where your office is?




Cees



#59 of 108 Patrick Sun

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Posted July 27 2010 - 02:25 AM

Hey Jack!  Glad to see you around these parts once again.  Was a bit busy last week with a high school reunion, but back in the saddle now.


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#60 of 108 Jack Briggs

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Posted July 27 2010 - 03:55 AM

Cees, great ro see you. Although you were joking, I'd say that my office is about ten miles south and a bit to the east of Mulholland Drive. Back in my motorcycling days, I loved riding on Mulholland Drive but even more on Mulholland Highway, which reaches past the Santa Monica mountains and is truly a road that inspires roadracing fantasies among those who ride on two wheels.


Mulholland Drive, however, is iconic -- at times you can see deep into the Los Angeles Basin as well as into the San Fernando Valley. A beautiful, beautiful road -- it's something that most people conjure in their minds without realizing it when they think about Los Angeles.


BTW, just how many mods are there now at HTF? Just curious.






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