ATMOS Clarification (1 Viewer)

[Cabby]

I have a new receiver: Onkyo TX-NR7100 9.2 channel
I have Klipsch RP 9.0 speakers

In the Onkyo setup I have two choices:
5.1.4 or 7.1.2

I also have several bluray movies, 3 of which are:
The Martian with TrueHD S24 7.1
Gladiator with DTS_HD S24 7.1
Predator DTS S24 5.1
(the Onkyo TX-NR7100 9.2 channel recognizes these audio formats)

I have 4 RP-500SA up-firing speakers that have a manual switch on the back for either ATMOS or surround.
What am I going to hear output from my receiver watching each of these 3 bluray movies with either:

5.1.4 with all 4 RP-500SA speakers manually switched to ATMOS

or 7.1.2 with 2 RP-500SA speakers manually switched to surround and
2 RP-500SA speakers manually switched to ATMOS

On YouTube I saw it recommended to go with 5.1.4 but
I don't want to miss out on anything because I don't understand the implications.

Any recommendations, and why?

Thanks.

 

[John Dirk]

You didn't discuss your speaker placement and that will have the most influence over what you'll ultimately experience. For Atmos you need to arrange your speakers according to Dolby Labs recommendation, as illustrated here and place the RP-500SA's in the up-firing positions. The front two would be placed atop your main speakers but you might need to get creative placing the rear two using speaker stands or the like.

For a 7.1.2 setup, two of the speakers will be used as surround back and should be placed accordingly, which is behind and slightly above ear level at about 45 degrees off axis.

In all cases, the switch on these speakers is just a crossover adjustment designed to provide appropriate performance for each of it's modes. I'd recommend setting them to their lowest value and letting your AVR regulate the actual output.

I would choose Atmos [5.1.4] over rear surround [7.1.2] when watching any content that supports it as the mixes tend to be more dynamic overall in my view.

 

[JohnRice]

One issue is, only a few HD Blu-Rays (not 4K) even have Atmos soundtracks.

But, as John stated, Atmos vs surround is really a matter of location of the speaker, not a switch on it. I suspect that switch is more a marketing ploy than anything truly meaningful.

 

[John Dirk]

My system is setup for 7.2.4 ATMOS. So I know what real ATMOS can do with UHD BluRays.

However, I am super confused with the streaming content from Netflix, HBO Max, Amazon Prime Video, Apple TV+ etc. which claims to be ATMOS. Some movies/shows from all these services has ATMOS output. From my understanding all of them can only output ATMOS 5.1, which is not techncially ATMOS since it requires the overhead speakers (.2, .4). It's true that my Denon receiver shows it's ATMOS audio, but it's not clear if it's 7.2.4 or 5.1.4 or whatever. It just says ATMOS. Sometimes I can hear overhead sound, but not as well defined as UHD Blurays.

Any one know what ATMOS is being outputed EXACTLY from the streaming services? Is it really ATMOS or just regular Dolby surround 5.1 disguised as ATMOS?

In case you don't know, Netflix charges a premium fee for their Atmos content. It's only available in their Ultra HD [or whatever they're calling it] tier. Even then it's usually only a 5.1.2 downmix but sadly, it is technically Atmos as Dolby allows for this and much lesser implementations. Think about it. Even mobile phones and tablets are carrying Atmos badges these days.

True Atmos is more than height channels, it's an object based mix as opposed to traditional channel-based content. As an example, if a helicopter flies from front to rear in a channel-based mix, the surround effect is created by panning from the front speakers to the rear. By contrast, in an object-based mix the helicopter effect is a discrete "object" that can be placed in any speaker or combination of speakers as needed to travel through 3D space. The more channels [not speakers] the mixing engineer uses, the more convincing and real the effect can be, depending on your systems limitations, of course.

 

[aPhil]

In case you don't know, Netflix charges a premium fee for their Atmos content. It's only available in their Ultra HD [or whatever they're calling it] tier. Even then it's usually only a 5.1.2 downmix but sadly, it is technically Atmos as Dolby allows for this and much lesser implementations. Think about it. Even mobile phones and tablets are carrying Atmos badges these days.

True Atmos is more than height channels, it's an object based mix as opposed to traditional channel-based content. As an example, if a helicopter flies from front to rear in a channel-based mix, the surround effect is created by panning from the front speakers to the rear. By contrast, in an object-based mix the helicopter effect is a discrete "object" that can be placed in any speaker or combination of speakers as needed to travel through 3D space. The more channels [not speakers] the mixing engineer uses, the more convincing and real the effect can be, depending on your systems limitations, of course.

I have 7.1.2 Atmos. What does Disney+ send (?),
as my output says 7.1.2,
but it says that for any 5.1 Dolby Digital. For Atmos, the receiver just says Atmos for the Disney+ Atmos streaming shows.

 

[Mark-P]

And of course nobody has answered his question of “what will he hear with those 3 blu-rays” While I can’t speak specifically to the Onkyo, for my Sony, height channels don’t output anything unless you are playing an actual Atmos soundtrack. So playing the 7.1 Blu-rays with the 5.1.4 setting will give you a 5.1 mixdown, and playing them with the 7.1.2 setting will give you the original 7.1 mix. Unless Onkyo has some sort of upconversion setting that outputs sound to all speakers, your height channels will be completely silent with non-Atmos sources.

 

[JohnRice]

nevermind

 

[JohnRice]

...ditto...

 

[John Dirk]

It looks like this has become a general Atmos discussion thread. I'm partially responsible but I don't think it's fair to the OP, so I'm going to start over on their behalf. We can certainly have the general discussion if we choose but perhaps elsewhere.

I have a new receiver: Onkyo TX-NR7100 9.2 channel

This means you have 9 channels for speakers and two for subs.

In the Onkyo setup I have two choices:
5.1.4 or 7.1.2

Correct, because 5+4 = 9, as does 7+2. If the Onkyo is truly 9.2, then your choices should actually be 5.2.4 or 7.2.2.

I have 4 RP-500SA up-firing speakers that have a manual switch on the back for either ATMOS or surround.
What am I going to hear output from my receiver watching each of these 3 bluray movies with either:

5.1.4 with all 4 RP-500SA speakers manually switched to ATMOS

Forget the switch, it's merely a crossover adjustment and has nothing to do with actual channel configuration. What you'll hear with each title depends on your AVR settings. Natively you should hear the default track of the disc, assuming you have your channels configured appropriately. Your AVR will decide where to send it's output based on whether you have 5.X.4 or 7.x.2 configured. It's up to you to make sure your speaker placement matches this configuration, so up-firing for the former and rear surrounds for the latter. In the absence of an actual Atmos mix, your AVR should offer matrixed modes that will still utilize the up-firing speakers in that configuration, usually denoted by something like "DOLBY 5.1 + SURROUND" under audio mode. For a true Atmos experience, however, you need to see the Atmos logo on the disc.

On YouTube I saw it recommended to go with 5.1.4 but
I don't want to miss out on anything because I don't understand the implications.

Any recommendations, and why?

A properly rendered Atmos experience is better than having rear surrounds by any objective measure. That's why the recommendation. That said, true Atmos involves careful speaker placement and, frankly, is not generally achieved with up-firing solutions. Therefore, unless you're willing to take some time, do some research and probably invest in ceiling speakers, 7.X.0 is probably your most obtainable choice. You can certainly have true Atmos [assuming proper source material , of course] but there is a learning curve and investment involved.

 

[Todd Erwin]

I have 7.1.2 Atmos. What does Disney+ send (?),
as my output says 7.1.2,
but it says that for any 5.1 Dolby Digital. For Atmos, the receiver just says Atmos for the Disney+ Atmos streaming shows.

What device are you using to stream Disney+?

 

[JohnRice]

I have 7.1.2 Atmos. What does Disney+ send (?),
as my output says 7.1.2,
but it says that for any 5.1 Dolby Digital. For Atmos, the receiver just says Atmos for the Disney+ Atmos streaming shows.

If you have processing like Dolby Surround enabled, it will matrix whatever input you have to output to all the active speakers. That's not the same as Atmos, though. When the input is Atmos, it will say so.

 

[Todd Erwin]

If you have processing like Dolby Surround enabled, it will matrix whatever input you have to output to all the active speakers. That's not the same as Atmos, though. When the input is Atmos, it will say so.

If he is using a Roku Ultra and the Audio on the device is set to AUTO, it adds the Dolby Atmos flag to the audio stream, even PCM stereo. It is a bug that Roku has never fixed on this model. The correct audio setting should be PASSTHROUGH, which will properly output Dolby Digital as Dolby Digital and Dolby Atmos as Dolby Atmos.

 

[Todd Erwin]

And FYI - nearly all streaming services send Dolby Atmos in a Dolby Digital+ 5.1 container that A/V receivers then decode as Dolby Atmos.

 

[JohnRice]

If he is using a Roku Ultra and the Audio on the device is set to AUTO, it adds the Dolby Atmos flag to the audio stream, even PCM stereo. It is a bug that Roku has never fixed on this model. The correct audio setting should be PASSTHROUGH, which will properly output Dolby Digital as Dolby Digital and Dolby Atmos as Dolby Atmos.

Good to know.

 

[Todd Erwin]

Good to know.

I reported that bug three years ago to a senior technician at Roku.

 

[JohnRice]

And FYI - nearly all streaming services send Dolby Atmos in a Dolby Digital+ 5.1 container that A/V receivers then decode as Dolby Atmos.

Well, as I've been discovering, the reality of home Atmos often isn't what it's cracked up to be.

 

[aPhil]

What device are you using to stream Disney+?

Yes, using Roku Ultra.

I'll also add that I am connected directly from the internet router (and not WiFi) to the Onkyo TR-NX 787 A/V Receiver and I'm on Fiber Optic service from Lumos (500mbps up/down).
No problem getting Dolby Atmos in 7.1.2.
The Roku Ultra input source that can be seen on the HDTV screen reads Dolby Atmos/D+ (if the source material is such) and the HDTV screen also says the output is Dolby Atmos 7.1.2.

There is no "passthrough" option in the Roku Ultra audio menu settings.

I'm not having a problem or an issue (at least I don't think I am),
I was mainly inquiring as to what anyone knows about the mbps for Disney's Atmos and how they rated the quality,
and am I really getting what I think I'm getting.
I find Disney+ to have the best streaming quality of any of the services, but I have limited experience with other services other than Netflix (to which I no longer subscribe).

 

[Todd Erwin]

There is no "passthrough" option in the Roku Ultra audio menu settings.

If you purchased your Ultra in the last three years, you should see the following options:

1. Settings/Audio


2. Settings/Audio/Digital output format


3. Settings/Audio/Digital output format/Passthrough

 

[aPhil]

If you purchased your Ultra in the last three years, you should see the following options:

1. Settings/Audio
View attachment 205819

2. Settings/Audio/Digital output format
View attachment 205820

3. Settings/Audio/Digital output format/Passthrough
View attachment 205821

As to the 2nd Photo in your reply above, in Digital Audio Output,
my choices are only Auto, Stereo, Custom. Passthrough is not there on my Roku Ultra.

 

[Todd Erwin]

As to the 2nd Photo in your reply above, in Digital Audio Output,
my choices are only Auto, Stereo, Custom. Passthrough is not there on my Roku Ultra.

What is the model number of your Ultra?