Which sub/subs (1 Viewer)

[bigdog8]

Alright, should I get an Audiopulse AX12Q1or 2 Dayton DVC385-88 15" subwoofers for my in home setting? Which sub/subs are going to be louder/shake the place more? I am planning on powering with a Behringer EP4000.

 

[Robert_J]

Normally it is all about moving air but with the extreme excursion of the Audiopulse, it will come close to the Daytons. But final results will depends greatly on the enclosure.

Rather than which ones will be louder/shake your place more, why not ask which ones will be more accurate? The Behringer is overkill for the Daytons. What about proper implementation of the Audiopulse since it has a very high inductance which requires parametric EQ to tame?

 

[bigdog8]

Sorry im a newbie. What exactly are you talking about by proper implementation? Also couldn't I purchase a parametric equilizer?

 

[Robert_J]

I run TC-3000 subs which were the model right before the Audiopulse Axis line. These subs have extremely powerful motors and usually very low Qts. They don't need a large box to perform at their peak. But they do need EQ to produce the low end. I use a Behringer Feedback Destroyer as a parametric EQ. It took about two hours to properly dial in my subs. I think I'm using 5 or 6 filters. A couple at 55hz to flatten the inductance hump and a couple down low to make the response flat to 17hz.

If I have time later, I'll run both through Unibox and see which one has the most output.

 

[bigdog8]

Do you have a Behringer EP4000 for each of the subs? Cause to power the axis 12 @ 2500 watts rms, I would have to bridge both channels correct?

Also, which model of the Behringer Feedback Destroyer do you use? Or would the cheapest work fine?

 

[Robert_J]

I run an EP-2500 at 2 ohms stereo into a pair of quad coil TC-3000's - http://web.archive.org/web/20070224172836/www.tcsounds.com/tc3000.htm . I'm glad I got mine before the Audiopulse price increase. On the other hand, the low prices in that link are one of the reasons that Thilo had to file for bankruptcy.

The EP-2500 / 4000 (same amp with a different name) will only put out about 800w @ 2 ohms @ 20 hz. I also use the older BFD (cheapest). Technically, you would not have to bridge the amp. You could connect each channel to pair of voice coils wired in series.

I ran the simulations through Unibox. A pair of Dayton 15's is significantly louder than a single 12 even when factoring in the lower input power for the 15's.

 

[bigdog8]

How much louder are we talking? I was thinking of eventually upgrading to 2 axis 12's. Also would it make a difference whether i got quad voice coil @ 1hm per or dual voice coil @ 2 ohm per?

 

[Robert_J]

Quad 1 ohm coils are exactly the same as dual 2 ohm coils. Quad coils just gives you more wiring options. Think about it. If you wire up a each pair of 1 ohm coils, what do you get? Dual 2 ohm coils.

The max output of the dual 15's was about 8db higher. Adding a 2nd Axis 12 with a second amp will get you an additional 6db by co-locating them. On the down side, the enclosures for the 15's were much larger. But that's physics and Hoffman's Iron Law at work. And before you ask about putting the 12's in larger enclosures, it won't work. Their extremely powerful motor structures are then wasted.

 

[bigdog8]

Alright well, my source is out of the axis 12's anyways. Waited too long i guess hah story of my life... What about the audiopulse LM10D2? Or do you know of any other subs for about 3-400$ per?

 

[Robert_J]

Tempest X2 15" - http://www.diycable.com/main/product_info.php?cPath=24&products_id=652 If you can stretch your budget the 18" or 21" Maelstrom is better. Look through the threads for the last couple of months because I helped a guy with a Tempest build. These are not SPL subs. With XBL^2 technology, they are sound quality first.

The CSS SDX 15" - http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=SDX15 Again with the XBL^2 sound quality.

Acoustic Elegance AV 15" - http://aespeakers.com/shop/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=31&products_id=68 I linked to the X but there is another AV 15 with different parameters. You will have to see which one gets closer to your goals without violating your constraints.

Fi Car Audio - https://ssl.perfora.net/www.ficaraudio.com/sess/utn;jsessionid=154b85bf99a951b/shopdata/0050_Speakers/0030_Q/index.shopscript
I'd look at the Q series. But if you want to get something custom, then this is the place. Scott, the owner, hooked me up with some re-cone kits to build some 18" infinite baffle subs. I talked to him and told him my goals and he set me up. I still haven't installed them but they test very nicely.

PAP - http://www.pierceaudioproducts.com/ Again, these guys can do custom work.

eD - http://www.edesignaudio.com/index.php?cPath=1_21 Any of the larger subs from eD.

Sundown - http://www.sundownaudio.com/index.php/products/subwoofers.html I think the Nightshade subs are in this price range. Jacob is a great guy to deal with. In fact I just bought some cones from him to build 10 subs.

SSA - http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/ More subs.

Incriminator Audio - http://www.incriminatoraudio.com/update/index.php They make up to 21" subs.

I know I listed a lot but these are the small build house subs. You can talk to the owner and sometimes get a custom model. But it is easier to put the parameters into WinISD or Unibox play with the different enclosure types and sizes. I also think you goals of loud and shaking the place show a car audio mentality that we try to get away from here. We go for accuracy first and SPL is just a by product. Once you can hit Dolby reference levels, everything else is wasted.

 

[bigdog8]

So a no go on the audiopulse LM10D2? What specific sub would you recommend for me? (BTW thanks for all the links, love looking/reading about them). Should I just stick to the Dayton's or is there something better out there for me that may cost a little more. Keep in mind I will power with a Behringer EP4000. Thanks so much!

 

[bigdog8]

Also, what about 2 AE AV15-X/H?

 

[Robert_J]

Two AV15's would be awesome. John is a great sub designer and he does his best to source US made parts. So when his speakers say made in the USA, as many parts as he can find are. I think the only thing that comes from China are the magnet slugs in the motor and that is because there are no US magnet manufacturers. From my fuzzy memory, the cones come from California, the surrounds and spiders from some mid-west state, the steel parts of the motor are machined locally for him and the voice coils from Florida.

Let's say you stick with these, what alignment do you want? Sealed or ported? Is this for music, movies or a combination? What percentage of each? Do you have any size constraints? Can you live with a sub that is the size of a small car? If you say that you can go as big as you want then I will suggest a different route - http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/matterhorn.htm

 

[bigdog8]

I was looking to build a vented enclosure, even though I have no idea how to do so (hah). And I would say probably nothing bigger than 2'x4'x2'. It will be used to listen to mostly music and possibly never movies.

 

[Robert_J]

Originally Posted by bigdog8

I was looking to build a vented enclosure, even though I have no idea how to do so (hah).

You are cutting a hole for the driver. You need to cut an additional hole(s) for the port(s). Make sure the port is the correct length. You are done. Here's the issue. You are using the Behringer amp which does not use a subsonic filter and a subsonic filter is REQUIRED. There is no discussion on this one. Otherwise you will eventually destroy your drivers. No need to take a chance. Reckhorn has some good SSFs.
Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdog8

And I would say probably nothing bigger than 2'x4'x2'.

That's HUGE. You could easily use dual 15's in a single enclosure. If that is for each enclosure then I would definitely go with 18's.

Originally Posted by bigdog8

It will be used to listen to mostly music and possibly never movies.

I'm assuming the "never" was a typo. If you are going to use it for movies, then the SSF is critical. I like the idea of a large, low tuned box. It gives you the punch of a sealed box when listening to music. When you watch movies it will allow you to get the full force of the special effects of action movies.

 

[Robert_J]

I forgot about Soundsplinter - http://www.soundsplinter.com/

 

[bigdog8]

Should I change amps or just find a SSF? Which specific SSF model would you recommend? Also I'm open to any enclosure size suggestions, I was hoping to put both subs in 1 enclosure. Also would 2 of the AE AV15-X/H out perform 4 Dayton 15" DVC's? Cause the price would be the same.

 

[Robert_J]

Four Dayton 15's would easily outperform dual AV15's. Even in sealed enclosures, it would be more bass than 99% of the people on this forum have. Also with sealed enclosures you don't need an SSF. But if you want ported and stick with the Behringer, then the Reckhorn B-1 is the cheapest EQ with a built-in SSF.

 

[bigdog8]

OK, I have no idea how to calculate enclosure size and specs and such. All I need is LxWxH, any way you could design one for me by chance?

 

[bigdog8]

I'd like to split them 2 and 2 if possible