Where did these black stains come from?

Discussion in 'Displays' started by Cagri, Jun 20, 2003.

  1. Cagri

    Cagri Second Unit

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    Hi. I have a 32" direct view Loewe which I am very happy with. Last night I spotted black stains on top of the screen and they weren't there before, I am 100% sure. First I thought they were on the glass and would come off so I started to wipe the screen but it is like they are inside the screen! They don't come off...

    It can't be burn in, the set is 7 months old and calibrated properly with S&V disc. There is a lady coming for cleaning once a week, and she knows she mustn't touch any component in my HT area, but this week her sister came instead as she was sick. And apparently she cleaned the screen, because it was shining bright when I came in from work. But I don't want to blame her as I can't even think how on earth she might have caused such a thing.

    Any ideas/comments about what might have caused these terrible things?
     
  2. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

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    Cagri, contact your substitute cleaning woman and ask her specifically what she used and how she applied it to the Loewe. If it's inside, I'm a little baffled. The shadow mask, maybe? Coming loose? But how?

    Again, the cleaning woman: Did she use furniture polish on that delicate screen? Find out immediately. (Maybe she was influenced by the high-gloss finish of the cabinet.)
     
  3. Cagri

    Cagri Second Unit

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    Jack I just called her and she says she wiped it with cotton and cologne. I will apply some alcohol to a small area next to a stain and see if the stains are really inside or if they just look like so. If they are caused by the alcohol, it'll add one more.

    Is there a way to get rid of them?
     
  4. Cagri

    Cagri Second Unit

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    OK, I applied some alcohol with a cotton cloth to an area which wasn't stained, and nothing happened. I had called Loewe service and they sent a guy to check the set today, and he didn't have a clue. He wasn't even sure if they were on the screen or inside it and said hadn't seen such a thing before. He said he would send someone else to see the set next Saturday, and they would try to get rid of the stains hopefully without having to move it in service center. I very much wonder what the heck is going on...
     
  5. Bill Will

    Bill Will Screenwriter

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    This sounds very Strange? Keep us posted on the outcome & I hope they do figure out what it is & take care of it for you.
     
  6. Cagri

    Cagri Second Unit

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    To let you know what had happened past 2 weeks; I was out of town last Saturday, so I asked them to call today. They came in the morning and they thought the stains were on the glass, i.e. outside. I told them that wasn't so. They insisted and spent 10 minutes wiping the glass with some sort of cleaning stuff they had. They then said " these are inside the glass". I said "You sure? Try wiping another round" The guy said "No I am positive they are inside". OK, now we agreed they were inside and they decided that the stains occured out of humidity inside the tube. They took the TV with them and said they would probably replace the tube. I asked them to replace the set, but they said if it was only the tube wrong they would only replace the tube.

    Will hear from them till Monday. What do you think about the tube replacement? A replaced tube doesn't make me happy, I'd rather have the set replaced. But then I'm not sure if this is really necessary.
     
  7. Kevin. W

    Kevin. W Screenwriter

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    I think if everything done right when replacing the tube you should have no problems. Its like replacing an engine in a car. Just make sure its a NEW tube and not a refurb.

    Kevin
     
  8. Cagri

    Cagri Second Unit

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    Thx Kevin, that's a bit comfort. How do I make sure that it's a new tube?
     
  9. Bill Will

    Bill Will Screenwriter

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    Call the repair shop & tell them that you want a "new" tube & you will not accept a refurbished one. I would also talk to Loewe & see what their policy is on replacing tubes because some companies warranties state that they can use rufurbished parts or new parts under their warranty. I would think if worse came to worse you might have to pay the difference between the cost of a new tube & a refurbished tube. Remember the repair shop really doesn't care if they put in a new tube or a refurbished tube but their not going to pay for a new tube if Loewe is only going to give them the money for the cost of a refurbished tube. I would really push Loewe & not the repair shop to get a "new" tube.
     
  10. Allan Jayne

    Allan Jayne Cinematographer

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    If the set comes back with logos or letterbox bars burned into the screen because it was a refurbished tube, that is not acceptable. Such a tube should never make it to the refurbish process but the repair facility and whoever is honoring the warranty should still be responsible for replacing it again on the spot.

    Video hints:
    http://members.aol.com/ajaynejr/video.htm
     
  11. Cagri

    Cagri Second Unit

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    I will definitely call them tomorrow and tell them I won't accept a refurbished tube. But if they say OK and still use a refurbished one with no burn in, is there a way to tell? The tube may look fine but it may be years old and have less life left.
     
  12. ShaunLB

    ShaunLB Stunt Coordinator

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    Cagri,

    First of all congrats on the Lowe...its a beast. However, here's some caution. A shop here in town just got one in a few months ago (2-3) and already the screen is looking downright horrible due to the black "stains" covering a majority of the screen (I'm in Macon, Georgia and we commonly have 80%+ hummidity here).

    Be careful if your replacement tube develops the same problems. It could simply be that high-humidty environments wont work with this set for long...seems like a simple problem of sealing to me...but just keep an eye out...I found it painful to see that beautiful Lowe scarred by those stains.
     
  13. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

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    This may well be a product-liability issue for the company. A well-designed picture tube should now exhibit such deformity in an environment with 80-percent relative humidity. Interesting post.
     
  14. Cagri

    Cagri Second Unit

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    They've delivered the TV yesterday. I was at work when they left it to the reception, and I came back to see that the set was in good shape, no scratches or such. I couldn't be sure if they'd replaced the tube though. It was getting dark and I thought I saw some stains on the same exact part of the glass. They weren't obvious as before, and it was getting dark. The stains are best seen in daylight. I checked the settings expecting to see them changed but to my surprise all of the basic settings were exactly same as I'd set them. I got into the service menu and saw that some of the settings were changed, some of them were same as I'd set. When turned on, the tube flashes bright white light on the sides and when turned off just before the screen shuts there appears a purpleish red screen for half a second.

    I'll check the stains again this evening. Is there some way to tell if the tube has been replaced? Should the settings default to factory settings when the tube is replaced or do they stay unchanged?
     
  15. Cagri

    Cagri Second Unit

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    OK, my problem is either solved or it's getting bigger...
    The guys from the authorised Loewe service center came to see the set today. There is one spot on the tube which is not significent, so I am convinced that the tube is replaced. They removed the plastic cover to make an adjustment to get rid of the flashes, and I saw that the replacement tube is made by THOMSON. I asked why it wasn't Loewe and they said Loewe and most of the other companies use either Philips or Thomson tubes, and my model's tube is Thomson. I went to the place where I bought the TV from. There was a Loewe Planus there and looking inside of it from the back I saw that the tube was really Philips.... Now, I know that Thomson is not as reputable brand as Philips and I wonder if this is normal... Any Loewe Calida owners out there who knows what make of tube is in their sets or anyone has an opinion if it is actually correct that Loewe is using Thomson tubes?
     
  16. Jack Briggs

    Jack Briggs Executive Producer

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    I know that the all-out Loewe Aconda 38 uses the same picture tube Thomson used in the ill-fated 38-inch RCA widescreen set, but the electronics are of much higher grade. But I wasn't aware that Thomson is making these tubes itself. Can someone elaborate here?

    Very few OEMs make their own picture tubes. Sony, however, not only makes its own tubes but makes the very glass as well.
     
  17. Bill Will

    Bill Will Screenwriter

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    If I remember right, YES, Loewe was using the RCA Tube. A few years back a neighbor bought two 25" Samsung sets for his kids & one looked better than the other & when he talked to a Samsung tech & gave him the serial numbers of the sets he was told that, that model was a very popular one & that Samsung had run out of picture tubes and had bought RCA tubes & the one that din't quite look as good as the other one had the RCA tube in it. The tech then gave him the numbers that had the Samsung tubes & he went back to the store & traded it in for one with a Samsung tube. I'm asuming that Samsung bought the cheapest 25" RCA Tube that they could get their hands on. The tech also told him that Samsung made ALL their own tubes & that they supplied a lot of other companies in the world with tubes. I would say that RCA must of had a bad batch of tubes that got out there because of ALL the problems I've ever heard about on the 38" RCA set there was never any problems with the 38" tube.
     
  18. Cagri

    Cagri Second Unit

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    I understand that bitching for another tube is not an option then.
    By the way, any comments about the flashes on the sides when turning the set on? Also as I mentioned before the screen gets purplish red just before shutting down and on the AV channels the screen isn't black as it used to be, a purple screen with horizontal yellowish lines. They came in to fix this and we thought it was fixed, but now I see that in daylight we weren't able to see, it's still same. It looks like this thing will give me some headache.
     
  19. Cagri

    Cagri Second Unit

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    OK I know I asked this twice and no one replied but I need to ask for the third time and will appreciate an answer.
    The flashes just before the picture comes on the screen, and the purplish screen with borizontal bars on empty channels which used to be black are still there. The techs say that they have done every adjustment properly and that I needn't get worried, these will not damage the TV in any way. I do not think that they are correct. Anyone has any idea what is causing this?
     
  20. ShaunLB

    ShaunLB Stunt Coordinator

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    Well, I'm not sure if the flashes are unusual, and I'll have to check again later to confirm if my set has them very severly, but I do have them to a limited degree on my 36" RCA. Which of course has a Thompson tube. Could be inherent to their larger tubes.
     

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