VOYAGE TO THE BOTTOM OF THE SEA--SEASON 4 VOL.2 (2 Viewers)

[WaveCrest]

That's pretty good. Not long to wait between seasons.

 

[ScottRE]

And with single sided DVDs and nicer menus, it;s a great package, far superior to ours.

 

[Nebiroth]

Not only that, they're doing full releases of Time Tunnel and Land of the Giants this year as well.


It's just a shame that it took so long for them to appear over here - they've been farmed out to a small label (Revelation) by Fox.


They are indeed better than the US releases if for no other reason than they're on single0sided discs (and the Voyage packaging will look better, rather than turning into cheap looking Amarays for the fourth season after three seasons of nice card boxes sigh).


If my budget allowed I;d replace my r1 copies. Revelation releases usually get huge discounts after a year or two as well. Expect to see these season sets for $15 eventually (although they are marked 'limited edition' I doubt they actually are in any real sense)

 

[Harry-N]

I've not heard one way or the other whether or not the UK sets suffer from PAL speed-up. Can anyone who has one of these either confirm or deny it? Even if you cannot hear the difference personally, you could at least post an episode and it's runtime to the minute and second. That will allow comparison to the US version.


I ask because I'm one of the unlucky ones who cannot abide PAL speed-up. I put up with TIME TUNNEL running too fast when the TV stations sped them up for more commercials, and do not wish to revisit the chipmunk-y dialog again.


Harry

 

[ScottRE]

Yes it does. Sorry.

 

[Jack P]

Let that be a lesson to those who think that R2 is the automatic solution to every R1 problem. Personally, I don't understand how the Europeans put up with that problem on *everything*!

 

[smithb]

Originally Posted by Jack P
Let that be a lesson to those who think that R2 is the automatic solution to every R1 problem. Personally, I don't understand how the Europeans put up with that problem on *everything*!

I guess the first question would have to be "how many are actually affected to where it impacts their enjoyment". Personally, being able to purchase R2 versions for cheaper has been a great benefit for me because I don't seem to even notice it. While on the other hand, I realize from reading comments of others that it can be a real problem to some. I wonder if there has ever been a study done in PAL countries to gauge the actual impact. Maybe by this time they've just learned to phase it out.

 

[silverking]

Originally Posted by Jack P

Let that be a lesson to those who think that R2 is the automatic solution to every R1 problem. Personally, I don't understand how the Europeans put up with that problem on *everything*!

Europeans are not 'putting up with it'.US programmes have always been broadcast this way so its the norm. I've yet to meet any European who is bothered by it or are,in fact, even aware of it. I do sympathise with R1 fans who are affected though.


As a matter of interest ,does a UK programme,made for the UK market, then broadcast in R1 suffer in reverse ?

 

[Harry-N]

Originally Posted by silverking




Europeans are not 'putting up with it'.US programmes have always been broadcast this way so its the norm. I've yet to meet any European who is bothered by it or are,in fact, even aware of it. I do sympathise with R1 fans who are affected though.


As a matter of interest ,does a UK programme,made for the UK market, then broadcast in R1 suffer in reverse ?

From what I understand, no. The universal standard for film is 24 frames per second. Virtually all films are made at this rate, even in Europe. They simply speed everything up for television and video.


I'm a fan of THE PRISONER and have seen many iterations of it on US television - CBS, PBS, syndication, VHS, LaserDisc, DVD and now Blu-Ray. All of those that were made for US consumption were done at the proper 24 fps speed.


Now, I also have purchased some soundtrack CDs from the series. Some of them are from Channel Four in the UK and feature both music and dialog from the show. The pieces that are pure music are at the proper speed - the pieces that feature the dialog are speeded up from a PAL source and sound ridiculous to my ears. I suppose its a case of, "If you don't know any different, then there's no perceived problem."

PAL people probably think Richard Basehart and David Hedison really talk like that - and it's a shame. Mr. Basehart's melifluous tones should be heard at the proper pitch!


Harry

 

[Nebiroth]

Originally Posted by Jack P

Let that be a lesson to those who think that R2 is the automatic solution to every R1 problem. Personally, I don't understand how the Europeans put up with that problem on *everything*!

The same way Americans put up with the problems on their Never The Same Colour Twice broadcast system?


Neither PAL nor NTSC is perfect.


I have yet to hear of anyone in Europe who is even remotely aware of PAL-speedup, let alone had their enjoyment impaired by it.

 

[kingfish]

right now i am watching richard basehart in an episode of hawaii five 0. imho richard was the most underrated actor around in those days. he was brilliant in fixed bayonets and time limit.

 

[Gary OS]

Gotta agree with Brad and Chris on the PAL issue. I've got the Voyage Season One R2 release and it sounds fine to me. I'm not going to say that I've never, ever picked up on the increased speed via voices or music before because I'd be lying if I said that. But it's only happened a couple of times for me. Like Brad, I'm just happy we have some alternatives (often at cheaper prices from Amazon UK). Chris poses an interesting question that I'd be interested in hearing the answer to as well.



Gary "love the options that different region releases offer" O.

 

[Harry-N]

Agreed. But the context here is that of US (Region 1) viewers attempting to grab European discs for the express purpose of

- a) Avoiding double-sided discs


- b) having nice color pictures on the face of the discs


- c) having perhaps a nicer menu structure


The prints are allegedly the same quality, so packaging seems to be the attraction here.


My point is and has always been, that if PAL speed-up is involved, it's not a good enough trade-off for me. I'd much rather have the episodes playing at the proper speed than to have a picture on my disc. Besides, most of my players are not PAL capable or Region 2 capable, so why would I spend money for sets that are difficult to play and sound funny to me?


But for those in Region 2 and those that are PAL capable, I'm happy that they can finally get these Irwin Allen sets. Everyone should be able to purchase what they want and that makes them happy.


Harry

Originally Posted by Nebiroth

Neither PAL nor NTSC is perfect.

 

[Gary OS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harry-N

Agreed. But the context here is that of US (Region 1) viewers attempting to grab European discs for the express purpose of

- a) Avoiding double-sided discs


- b) having nice color pictures on the face of the discs


- c) having perhaps a nicer menu structure


The prints are allegedly the same quality, so packaging seems to be the attraction here.


My point is and has always been, that if PAL speed-up is involved, it's not a good enough trade-off for me. I'd much rather have the episodes playing at the proper speed than to have a picture on my disc. Besides, most of my players are not PAL capable or Region 2 capable, so why would I spend money for sets that are difficult to play and sound funny to me?


But for those in Region 2 and those that are PAL capable, I'm happy that they can finally get these Irwin Allen sets. Everyone should be able to purchase what they want and that makes them happy.


Harry

Answer "a" is the only thing that matters to me. And if the PAL speedup affected me drastically then I'd have been willing to live with my double-sided discs, as much as I despise those things. I can't imagine the other two points being important to many people at all. Then again, it takes all types. LOL



Gary "definitely agree with your last sentence" O.

 

[Jeff Willis]

Gary, and those that have voiced their similar opinion on the PAL issue, I agree. As most know on this Bd, I'm region-free and enjoy several PAL TV/DVD sets as well as films that are still unavailable in anammorphic format in R1. I'm among those that can detect the speed-up in opening & closing themes and on occasion, rarely, in an episode. None of that diminishes my audio experience.


I understand those that don't pursue PAL dvd's, but most of the points that Harry mentioned are not applicable to my decision to buy a PAL disc or TV/DVD set. My main reason for buying PAL releases are due to their NTSC counterparts are unavailable in R1 or to a lesser degree, a considerably lower price from Amazon UK vs the US store. Another reason that's not been mentioned is that there are several TV/DVD sets that contain the original music in their PAL releases, as compared to edited music in R1.


I don't agree with any "lesson learned" comments here at all and that imo is what prompted some replies to this subject, includuing my own.


I have friends overseas and they have collected both NTSC and PAL DVD's for years. None of them have mentioned the issues that are brought up in the states. Many overseas consumers have been region-free, players as well as TV's for a long time. The PAL speed issue is mainly an issue in the US.


I frequent the film Bd daily and, admittedly don't read every thread daily but I don't recall a general outcry regarding this PAL speed-up issue among those guys. Perhaps that's not accurate?

 

[Harry-N]

I don't care to argue the point much further here - this IS supposed to be a VOYAGE thread and I feel like this PAL issue has hijacked it - and I certainly don't want to tell others what they should and shouldn't buy. That's an issue that each of us has to deal with.


My point is purely from my own perspective, and I simply cannot abide PAL speed-up. It's not a debate - it's a fact. PAL film-based stuff is sped up 4% and there are a number of us who not only can hear it, can't take it. That's something WE have to live with, and it limits us from freely exploring the International market.


To those to whom it makes no difference, more power to you. Just don't try to convince US that we shouldn't hear it. We do.

Harry

 

[Jeff Willis]

No one is trying to convince you of anything Harry, in particular, that you shouldn't hear the speed-up issue. It's your call on what you decide about PAL. Regarding hijacking, I suggest that the "lessen learned" comment was not well-recieved by some and prompted replies. Do you consider that post to be non-condescending? I don't.


Regarding attempts to convince", that's a two-way street.


Post #343 was where this recent PAL speedup issue was introduced, yours. Post #345 is the one that prompted some responses. Hijacking? I see it differently.

 

[Jeff Willis]

Before anyone else replies, Harry has a point about the VTTS thread. If you want the last word, it's yours about this issue. I don't usually post in this thread although I have the S1-2 sets in my collection. I like it but I rarely post in this thread.


Harry, as we both know, you and I are on opposite sides of a couple of issues on this board, one being the PAL issue and the other being the Fugitive music issue. I remind you that I was the one that tried to extend a handshake over there (Fugitive) but it appeared that you declined my offer and posted additional comments (ie "golden eared" references) and didn't reply to a fellow Time-Tunnel megafan, me . So be it, I get it, we're never going to be forum buddies . All I ask is that you try and refrain from future music comments that appear directed at those of us that disagree with you there and that some of your anti-PAL members refrain from "lesson learned" posts. Does that sound reasonable to you?

 

[Jack P]

My comment was prompted by the fact that the speed-up issue never seems to be factored in when trying to make the case that a R2 is somehow superior to a R1 release for the US audience. I have only gone foreign region (R4) for one TV release, "McCloud" S1 to see the episodes in the right 60 minute presentation at last but if we had an R1 release with slightly lesser picture quality, I would still get the R1 in a heartbeat.


I was just struck by how the issue of R2 superiority over an R1 release based on menus, packaging etc. just never seemed to factor the element that for a US ear, hearing the music in the wrong key (because that music is NOT reflective of how it actually sounds when it first recorded) can be a very irritating experience.

 

[Jeff Willis]

Jack, I read your post after posting my intended last word here, If I and others misunderstood your previous post, I certainly apologize but I wasn't the only one that read it that way.


I get what you''re saying about PAL, really I do. It's up to the individual. Packaging and implied mis-leading about not mentioning the 1/2-note pitch difference in the soundtrack never entered into my decisions to go R-free years ago. Perhaps it's an issue with others, not being aware of the speedup issue. I've not read that anywhere on the forum in the past but your point is a good one about that.