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Toy Story 4 (2019)

Discussion in 'Movies' started by Jake Lipson, Dec 7, 2017.

  1. Sam Favate

    Sam Favate Lead Actor

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    Not to diminish the emotional impact of this movie, but I found the ending of Toy Story 3 to be much sadder.
     
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  2. Johnny Angell

    Johnny Angell Played With Dinosaurs Member

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    It's happy with a heavy sigh thrown in.
     
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  3. Johnny Angell

    Johnny Angell Played With Dinosaurs Member

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    I get where you're coming from. TS3 was about the loss of childhood and the innocence of childhood. Even though it turned out well for the Toys, Woody was saying goodbye to the only child he had ever known.

    TS4 is a far bigger separation and change for Woody but one he chooses. Yes, I agree, 3 is sadder.
     
  4. TJPC

    TJPC Producer

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    It is time Woody et al move on. This group of toys would all be considered antiques today. For the most part, they seem to me to be the kind of toys I would have played with as a child, and I will be 68 on my next birthday. Mind you my Mr. Potato Head was meant to be used with a real potato!
     
  5. TJPC

    TJPC Producer

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    I hope I haven’t sent one about this yet, but my wife was in a craft store last weekend, and saw a craft kit to make “Forkies”! It had an over sized fork, googlie eyes, pipe cleaners etc.
     
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  6. Jake Lipson

    Jake Lipson Lead Actor

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    Yes -- typo. Good catch. ;)

    Yes.

    Of course, if you're interested in 4, you've probably also seen the When She Loved Me sequence in Toy Story 2 and the majority of these toys almost get incinerated in Toy Story 3. So sad moments are nothing new for this series...nor are they the only parts of the fourth movie, not by a long shot. And it's also great. So yeah, go.
     
  7. Mikael Soderholm

    Mikael Soderholm Supporting Actor

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    If you know Pixar, you know sad can be good. If you don't, see Inside Out, IMHO their greatest movie so far, and that is in a very tough competition.
     
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  8. Bryan^H

    Bryan^H Lead Actor

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    Of course. The "When She Loved Me" sequence in Toy Story 2 is one of the saddest things I have ever seen....right up there with the first minutes of "UP". Inside Out tears me up too. Weird that live action drama movies have been replaced by animated features for sadness in cinema for me these days.
     
  9. Sam Favate

    Sam Favate Lead Actor

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    Those two sequences should be used to measure the emotional health of a person. If anyone is not moved by those two scenes, they're cold-blooded.
     
  10. Colin Jacobson

    Colin Jacobson Lead Actor

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    I can't disagree with that attitude.

    On its own, "TS4" is a fun ride. Thoroughly entertaining and enjoyable from start to finish - well, except for the part where I started to fear that the movie would literally be nothing more than 100 minutes of Woody rescuing Forky from the trash.

    However, the film does seem "unnecessary" and more like a cash grab than the others.

    Admittedly, most sequels are "unnecessary" and they exist largely to churn out more money. I guess you could argue the second and third "TS" flicks didn't need to exist, as the first movie stood on its own just fine.

    However, Pixar managed to find new ways to approach the material and bring fresh life to the characters. Those films took us through various life stages and created moving, emotional character developments.

    As does "TS4", to a degree, but it feels more contrived than its predecessors. The emotional moments still resonate, but not in the same way, partly because they seem self-conscious and generated for tear-jerking.

    Take the plight of Gabby Gabby. She goes from villain to emotional core at the drop of a hat, and I don't buy it.

    Her arc also feels a lot like Jessie's in the second film. It's basically an altered version of that story but without the same power - Gabby gets no "When Somebody Loved Me" moment.

    I like the return of Bo and feel happy Annie Potts finally gets something to do. Bo seemed underused in the prior films, though that made some sense since they focused on Andy.

    Still, it's nice to see her take a leading role, and she creates some of the most fun parts of the film. Potts plays the role well and adds real charm and vivacity to the film.

    Unfortunately, "TS4" seems badly overstuffed, partly because it has so many mouths to feed. This becomes an issue in many sequels: they need new characters to develop but they also need to feature those from prior flicks, so they end up with a narrative spread way too thin.

    In the case of "TS4", we find characters from the first three movies as well as Gabby, Forky, Bunny, Ducky, Giggle and Duke. That's an awful lot of participants to feature, and too many get lost along the way.

    Especially those from the earlier flicks. Yeah, Woody and Bo receive a lot of attention, but the rest feel like supporting roles.

    Even Buzz. While the film does give him some hero moments, these seem tacked on, as if the filmmakers figured fans would revolt if Buzz didn't get a decent role.

    He still seems superfluous, as this is really Woody's story - again. I can't complain about that, as he's always been the heart of the series, but the less than stellar use of Buzz here - the clear second in the chain of command - makes the balance feel more "off".

    "TS4" really under-uses the other recurring roles. They're essentially there are windowdressing, and I feel sad to see originals like Hamm, Slinky, Mr. Potato Head and Rex left stuck among so many others.

    Again, I know that the movie walks a fine line, as it needs to pack in all the old and new characters, so I get why the old ones find so little room to breathe. It still makes me a bit glum that they're such minor participants after all the time we've spent with them in the past.

    None of the new roles really goes anywhere. As mentioned, Gabby feels like a retread, and though Forky goes through the biggest arc, he doesn't really evolve that much.

    In addition, the movie essentially casts him aside once we meet Gabby. Forky always exists as a plot contrivance - he's almost a ForkGuffin - but at least the movie offers him some room for growth during its first half.

    After that, though, Forky does little more than service plot points. Unlike Buzz in the first film, Forky fails to go anywhere and he becomes nearly superfluous along the way.

    Despite all these criticisms, I do find an enjoyable tale in "TS4". It's amusing and fast-paced and keeps the viewer's attention across its running time.

    It's just a movie that doesn't need to exist, and it kind of "spoils" the lovely conclusion to the series that "TS3" brought. Andy's willingness to move on felt like a perfect place for the characters' cinematic lives to end. We could envision that Bonnie would love the toys and eventually pass them on ala Andy.

    This may prove true, but "TS4" becomes an unneeded coda, one that feels more about toy sales than narrative necessity - and about more movies as well, as the door gets left wide open for "TS5", "TS6" and so on.

    So I find myself torn. While I enjoyed the time I spent with "TS4", I don't think it adds anything to the series and it leaves a slightly sour taste in my mouth. Perhaps I'll get over myself when I watch it a second time, but right now, I'm lukewarm toward the movie...
     
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  11. Colin Jacobson

    Colin Jacobson Lead Actor

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    As lukewarm as I am toward "TS4" right now, I'm definitely happy Woody's finally gonna get laid! :D
     
  12. Message #152 of 200 Jun 30, 2019
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2019
    Bob_S.

    Bob_S. Screenwriter

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    Colin, that's pretty much my reaction (and my whole family's) to the movie as well but you explained it much better than I ever could. The only thing I disagree on is I thought this was the door closing on TS. I don't see any more sequels. I hope I'm wrong. Like I said, I'll watch anything Toy Story. I would rather have them all together and maybe come out with a special every once in a while with a fun adventure. I don't see that happening with TS4 ending. I also really missed Don Rickles. Just seemed odd with Mr. Potato Head not making any sarcastic remarks. By the way, does anyone know if those Toy Story Toons with Bonnie are on dvd?
     
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  13. Colin Jacobson

    Colin Jacobson Lead Actor

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    To be clear, I don't claim there will be more movies - just that "TS4" leaves tons of room for more.

    After all, didn't "TS3" seems to slam shut the door for the series? We all believed it was the end - but here we are 9 years later!
     
  14. Jake Lipson

    Jake Lipson Lead Actor

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    In order for Toy Story 5 to happen, they would have to
    either choose which group of toys to follow -- Buzz and the others in Bonnie's room, or Woody, Bo and their independent group; or do plot maneuvering to put the group back together again which would negate the end of this film.
     
  15. Colin Jacobson

    Colin Jacobson Lead Actor

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    Agree that they'd likely have to go one way or another. Don't see that as an impediment to a sequel...
     
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  16. Jason_V

    Jason_V Lead Actor

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    Well, here's the thing. Rickles passed away and didn't record anything for the movie. They also didn't recast him. Pixar used existing soundclips and recordings to make sure he was in the movie. I'm just glad he was there for however long we got him.

    I just finished watching the first three Toy Story's this weekend. For sure, Woody is all about Andy-his kid-in those films. He is also about making sure the other toys are safe and played with. To a large extent, TS4 is about the same thing: Woody spends more of the movie worrying about Bonnie and the other toys from Andy's room. He goes out to save Forky, running into a toy that needs help (Gabby). He sacrifices a part of himself so she has a shot of finding happiness. That's what a hero does: puts everyone else before himself.

    The first three movies kept the gang together, for the most part. They had adventures together, using each other's talents to achieve a goal. TS4 is breaking the group up, similar to the ending of Fellowship of the Ring or, really, any quest film. If you keep the characters together for every adventure, the story gets stale. There have to be new characters and dynamics to play with. And I'd argue there are here: aside from Woody, Buzz is thrust into the leadership position. He has historically been second fiddle to Woody.

    In TS2, Buzz and the gang tell Woody "we need you" after the rescue. In this movie, they all tell Woody "we love you and we need you, but you have to do what's right for you." The gang never sticks together at the end of every movie. Look at every great franchise in movie history:

    Star Wars - at the end of Empire Strikes Back, our characters are spread out
    Star Trek - at the end of Wrath of Khan, Spock is dead
    Lord of the Rings - the Fellowship is broken at the end of the first movie
    The MCU - at the end of Civil War, the team is split

    This is the hero's journey.
     
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  17. Bob_S.

    Bob_S. Screenwriter

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    Not really, there were a few specials that were done after TS 3 which I enjoyed and they could have continued that but not now after #4 ( at least not with all of them together which I wouldn't care for). But yes, as most people agree TS 3 was the perfect ending. FOR ME, #4 ruined that. I'm not saying I hated the movie, it's just that the ending wasn't satisfying for me.

    I know he passed away but FOR ME it was noticeable and just seemed odd with Mr. Potato Head saying virtually nothing the whole movie. See, Mr. Potato Head was my favorite secondary character (behind Woody, Buzz, and Jessie) so knowing he wasn't going to say anything the whole movie was tough.

    I agree with you for the most part but I will add that Woody also just wanted an owner to love him and he got that with Bonnie, the whole reason for TS 3. Andy was too old and the toys were passed on to someone else who would love them. Happy ending, end of series.

    Star Wars: ROTJ-Everyone's back together again-HAPPY ENDING!
    Star Trek: TSFS-Spock comes back to life and everyone's back together again-HAPPY ENDING!
    I'll give you Fellowship even though the ending to ROTK was satisfying to me. Most of the Fellowship survives and evil is conquered.

    Like I said before, TS 4's ending was bitter sweet for me. I'm glad Woody's doing what he loves doing-find owners for toys but prefer TS 3's ending over this one.
     
  18. Malcolm R

    Malcolm R Executive Producer

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    Sounds like they dropped the ball on that, compared to what they said before the film was released. I was under the impression that they were going to fully incorporate the character based on prior recordings with Rickles. Sounds like they did not follow through.
     
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  19. Jason_V

    Jason_V Lead Actor

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    Sure, but as we know, that isn't the end of the story. That group doesn't stay together, nor should they. Even in the 80s, that would have been wholly unrealistic.

    Except David Marcus is dead and the Enterprise (one of the main characters, you could argue) is destroyed. And Spock is not the Spock we had prior to his death in ST II. So is it really a happy ending? I'd call is more bittersweet.

    Most survive. But they don't stay together.

    This idea of the big happy ending which seems to have a problem with is just...I don't know. Friends move on because of new jobs or work or getting married or kids or any other reason.

    They all had the right ending for their particular story.
     
  20. Jake Lipson

    Jake Lipson Lead Actor

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    Rickles is heard in the movie the way they said he would be. It's not a huge role, but he's there and says a few things, if I recall correctly (I haven't seen it since opening night.) The way the movie is structured, I don't think he would have had a substantially larger role if he were alive anyway.

    Without spoiling anything that hasn't been shown in the trailers, Forky leaves, Woody goes after him and eventually Buzz goes after Woody. All of the other major characters from Bonnie's room are in a B-plot waiting for them to return. The vast majority of the action in the movie centers on Woody, Bo Peep and their interactions with the new characters. It is not an ensemble piece in the way that the third one is where every character has a substantial part and chance to shine. This is very much about Woody as the central figure. The role reduction that Mr. Potato Head received also affects the other supporting characters whose voice actors are still alive.
     
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