Toy Story 2 Censored Scene (1 Viewer)

[MaxMorrow]

It's likely not coming from a well-intentioned place, it's coming from a place of self-interest and "we don't want to deal with a potential shitstorm".

Potato, potahto.

 

[Stephen_J_H]

Well to be fair, I don't think that's their primary reason for making this cut. I genuinely believe that this change is coming from a well-intentioned place. (Some people may not agree with it or like it, and I completely understand that... though it's pretty insignificant to me personally.) A potential bump in sales of old product will be a nice side effect for Disney though, and somebody will make a few bucks o' profit selling "Banned Toy Story 2 DVDs!" on eBay to dummies for a bit.

As Randy Travis once said, "The road to Hell is paved with good intentions."

I think it's about brand positioning. Disney has a very specific corporate image and they don't want to be associated with anything that doesn't fit with that.

Which is why Pecos Bill's cigarettes were digitally erased to unintentionally comic and truly bizarre results in Melody Time; the ENTIRE The Martins and the Coys segment was REMOVED from Make Mine Music; the line in Arabian Nights from Aladdin was altered from "Where they cut off your ear if they don't like your face" to the banal "Where it's flat and immense and the heat is intense" ; the removal of the stereotypically nappy-haired centaur Sunflower in the Pastoral Symphony segment of Fantasia... I could continue, but you get the point, especially when Disney had the Treasures line, where they released all sorts of content, including WWII propaganda. I guess I just resent being treated like a $%&^$%&$$& child when it comes to classic animation.

Yes! Use the Warners model - release it intact, with the disclaimer "that was wrong then, and it's still wrong today". For God's sake, don't tell anyone Donald Duck isn't wearing pants!

This! A million times this!

 

[Colin Jacobson]

Well to be fair, I don't think that's their primary reason for making this cut. I genuinely believe that this change is coming from a well-intentioned place. (Some people may not agree with it or like it, and I completely understand that... though it's pretty insignificant to me personally.) A potential bump in sales of old product will be a nice side effect for Disney though, and somebody will make a few bucks o' profit selling "Banned Toy Story 2 DVDs!" on eBay to dummies for a bit.

Is this issue even getting any traction in the "real world"?

I've not seen it pop up on Twitter or news sites, so I'm not sure if it's gonna be well-known enough to make the 20 skillion existing "TS2" DVDs/BDs "rare"!

 

[mijotu]

And there, in a nutshell, is the argument for physical media.

That is, if you ignore the myriad other qualities justifying physical media.

While I do get the slippery slope argument, this isn’t really much of a loss and, as such, may have a more compelling argument for its removal. The fact that it is removable is what creates the dilemma, and its removal seems responsible, especially if we are discussing “principles.”

Question remains (not begged, btw — that has another meaning): When will Disney replace the fat people in WALL-E with those exhibiting other perils of sedentary space travel?

 

[MatthewA]

I don't agree with the change, but I imagine the fact that it was also directed by John Lasseter probably was another consideration/trigger to make the change. Once Lasseter was revealed to be a creep, I'd imagine everything he touched is being looked at in a new light.

Then knowing their past history, do you believe they'll stop at just one scene from one movie? Do you really think they'll take away everything he worked on, all the way back to Mickey's Christmas Carol. He was a Ron Miller-era hire. That'd be too much to get rid of just because of how long he's been associated with the company and how far-reaching his influence is. This is low-hanging fruit by comparison to some of the other things they've redacted. And as Stephen_J_H said, it is a villain doing it so not exactly a solid citizen to begin with. It would have been out of character for any of the other male toys to behave that way, especially since Woody and Buzz both have girlfriends at this point. No, I don't approve of this constant cutting and cutting and cutting any more than I approve of what Lasseter did. Is there any way to prove correlation, and not just causation, between being exposed to a scene like this and actually going out and doing something like that?

If the slippery slope is a poor argument against Disney, then "we're a private company and we can do whatever we want" isn't much of a defense for their actions; it is but a minor technicality, and pointing it out obscures the ethical implications of their actions both in the short-term and the long-term. You may be thinking logically, but it is a mistake to assume that everyone at the top of the Disney food chain is as well. Where will they draw the line? This is why I'm not jumping for joy about them owning Fox. But as for the logical validity of the "slippery slope," this does not only apply to their many acts of post-hoc censorship of which this has been just one of many. This applies to the endless stream of remakes, too.

Disney made plenty of movies and TV shows that tried to teach respect for women, but they obviously had little to no effect on Lasseter. Every time they've gone out of their way to spread positive social values, it still falls short in some way, otherwise Walt Disney would have quit smoking tobacco cigarettes after Goofy starred in an anti-smoking cartoon.

It's likely not coming from a well-intentioned place, it's coming from a place of self-interest and "we don't want to deal with a potential shitstorm".

They got one anyway. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Cutting it just called attention to it, just like the minor alterations made to Who Framed Roger Rabbit that went unnoticed until some entertainment news publication pointed out that the CAV laserdisc revealed all, so to speak*. Subsequent releases have been bowdlerized. The hybrids get hit the worst in terms of alterations or outright removal from the market.

*Eat your heart out, Sharon Stone. And since Ricky went to the pokey, good thing your Silver Spoons appearance is already on DVD, and thank Heaven that Disney doesn't own that show despite their attempts to pay homage to the original Parent Trap, from the blond adolescent protagonist to the theme song's similarities to "Let's Get Together" to having Frank "Happy Kyne" DeVol (who kind of resembled Golden Girls' Herb Edelman) as a guest star for the parents' first date.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

That is, if you ignore the myriad other qualities justifying physical media.

While I do get the slippery slope argument, this isn’t really much of a loss and, as such, may have a more compelling argument for its removal. The fact that it is removable is what creates the dilemma, and its removal seems responsible, especially if we are discussing “principles.”

I'm not sure there's a compelling argument for its removal, but I do think it's an unusual case because it wasn't part of the original movie.

Of course, it's not part of the story anyway - it's just part of the fake bloopers and a goofy bonus. Add to that the fact it didn't appear until a few weeks into the movie's run and it becomes more extraneous.

I'd be 100% fine if Disney dropped the bloopers entirely from the movie proper since they weren't there from the start. They should still be part of the extras, though - and this "controversial" one should remain there...

 

[TravisR]

I'd be 100% fine if Disney dropped the bloopers entirely from the movie proper since they weren't there from the start. They should still be part of the extras, though - and this "controversial" one should remain there...

I wouldn't particularly mind if it was only a bonus on the disc but since they only waited to include the outtakes to the theatrical release in order to sell more tickets, I consider it part of the movie proper.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

I wouldn't particularly mind if it was only a bonus on the disc but since they only waited to include the outtakes to the theatrical release in order to sell more tickets, I consider it part of the movie proper.

To some degree, it depends on what you define as "the movie proper".

End credits scenes with actual character information? Yeah, those are part of the movie, IMO - stuff like the MCU tidbits.

Bloopers? More questionable - I see them as a bonus feature stuck in the running time more than part of the actual movie.

Whatever Disney's motivation in the exclusion of the bloopers until the movie's 2nd run, it remains true that the film debuted and screened for weeks without them, so I'd default to that as the "original version".

Anyway, we agree that the bloopers should still be available on the disc somewhere!

 

[MaxMorrow]

Is this issue even getting any traction in the "real world"?

I've not seen it pop up on Twitter or news sites, so I'm not sure if it's gonna be well-known enough to make the 20 skillion existing "TS2" DVDs/BDs "rare"!

This is the only place I've personally seen any extended discussion of it--to be fair, I'm not looking, because I don't consider this all that worrisome. ("Where do we draw the line?" Somewhere...but not here.) And no, the existing discs will never be considered truly rare (barring some rogue elements actively breaking into other people's homes to destroy their copies)--but frankly, that has never stopped certain collectors and speculators in the past from thinking things like this are. I can virtually guarantee that you'll see people trying to unload copies of TS2 at ridiculous prices down the line--and the occasional sucker who buys them.

 

[David Norman]

Here and Bluray.com is the main places. Bluray.com is of course far more over the top

 

[BarryR]

I don't think Disney would've altered "Andromeda Strain" - there's nothing controversial about the nudity I mention.

I brought it up as an indicator of how ratings changed. It boggles my mind that a movie with a topless woman - and also a bare male butt - got a "G"!

One could view the rating of potentially controversial but not the nudity itself, so I don't think there's any chance Disney would've altered it...

Way back when, G-rated movies had waaaay more latitude than now. Today, some movies from the '60s and '70s rated G would probably get PG13.

 

[The Obsolete Man]

Way back when, G-rated movies had waaaay more latitude than now. Today, some movies from the '60s and '70s rated G would probably get PG13.

I'm still shocked Airplane was and still is only PG.

Between the jokes and the bevy of bouncing breasts (both clothed and not), I'm shocked it hasn't been upped to a hard R by now.

And that's the difference between 1980 and now. Innocent boobs and Gladiator Movies didn't automatically deserve an R rating.

 

[BarryR]

AIRPLANE! pre-dated PG13, which it surely (don't call me Shirley!) would've gotten if made later.

 

[Malcolm R]

And that's the difference between 1980 and now. Innocent boobs and Gladiator Movies didn't automatically deserve an R rating.

Yep, people today are a lot more uptight. Somehow the generation of free love managed to raise a generation of pearl-clutching prudes.

 

[Bob_S.]

Surely the big question is .... is Stinky Pete going to be offered any more roles now that Disney's pulled him out of Toy Story 2. Did the Barbie Girls file an official complaint? If not, then leave it be.

How do we know that the Barbie twins aren't into older men?

 

[Johnny Angell]

How do we know that the Barbie twins aren't into older men?

That is a question I never expected to ponder. Hmmm.

 

[Worth]

A lot of '70s and '80s movies would never get a PG now - Jaws, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Invasion of the Body Snatchers, Poltergeist, Sixteen Candles, Watership Down, Mommie Dearest, Wizards, The Plague Dogs.

 

[TravisR]

A lot of '70s and '80s movies would never get a PG now - Jaws

I think Jaws would get an R today. Although a few minor trims to Quint's death and it would get a PG-13.

 

[Stephen_J_H]

A lot of '70s and '80s movies would never get a PG now - Jaws, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Invasion of the Body Snatchers, Poltergeist, Sixteen Candles, Watership Down, Mommie Dearest, Wizards, The Plague Dogs.

Nearly all of those would get PG-13s, and IIRC, Poltergeist got its PG on a appeal to the MPAA from an R. In fact, I believe The Plague Dogs has been formally re-rated PG-13, as it appears with that rating on Shout! Factory's website.

 

[Bryan^H]

I'm still shocked Airplane was and still is only PG.

Between the jokes and the bevy of bouncing breasts (both clothed and not), I'm shocked it hasn't been upped to a hard R by now.

And that's the difference between 1980 and now. Innocent boobs and Gladiator Movies didn't automatically deserve an R rating.

Different time. Nudity was acceptable for a "G", and "PG" rated film up until the 80's. Some early PG-13 would be "R" today.