Toshiba 42H81 Widescreen RPTV

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by Sean Patrick, Dec 2, 2001.

  1. Sean Patrick

    Sean Patrick Supporting Actor

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    I have a question about the newer Toshiba projection hdtv's.

    I had a TW40X81 (two of them, actually) and they were both disasters for me, with bad convergence, tilt, focus issues, ghosting, and bad line doubling. I know many people are happy with theirs, but even on a replacement set I could never get what I thought was a pleasing picture, even after countless calibrations.

    I was wondering if someone could tell me if any improvements have been made to the new Toshibas. Also, do you still have to clip wires inside to disable SVM? Is there a more advanced convergence in the main menu this time around? Is there any kind of focus tweaking without opening up the set?

    thanks!
     
  2. Mikey Ber

    Mikey Ber Stunt Coordinator

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    bought a 50HX81. LOVE IT! Great picture out of the box. Should wait 6 months before getting an isf cal. on a rptv.
     
  3. JohnHN

    JohnHN Stunt Coordinator

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    I have a 50HX81, a 2002 model, and a friend with a TW40X81 was stunned by the picture. Can't really speak with authority on what is different. Probably a lot of small improvements that have added up. The deinterlacer is MUCH better, but I use the set almost exclusively for progressive DVD so this is a non-issue for me.

    I've been following, and contributing to, the various forums on the Toshibas since they came out and they are largely immune to the problems you list EXCEPT FOR ghosting. There is a ghosting problem on all or nearly all the new sets. I can live with it but it seems to be a design flaw. Look at the Home Theater Spot for lots of posts on this issue.

    I should also remark that while my picture was OK out of the box, after adjustments only to standard user controls like contrast, convergence was off and was only really brought under control by doing the 56pt convergence, which requires going into the service menu. I found the process fairly straightforward.

    SVM is disabled by going into movie mode. Some people have been yanking wires on the SVM board but this does not seem to be necessary.
     
  4. Andrew Grall

    Andrew Grall Supporting Actor

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    I have a 50H81 and I love it...

    The only negative is that I really need to do a service menu convergence on it, but I haven't made the time, and I am admittedly a little gunshy about messing around with the service menu...

    How much does a typical ISF calibration cost? Would that fix my geometry issues?
     
  5. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Greetings

    A basic ISF calibration will run you $275 and will not address geometry. Only grayscale and user controls.

    A more advanced ISF service typically costing from $400 to $700 will address some geometry issues amongst a whole list of things to be done.

    SVM is still unplugged at the source with the new sets. Some people just do not trust that the movie mode in the TV is truly shutting off SVM completely.

    In terms of comparing the fully calibrated X81 to the current H/HX units, the end result is an image that still looks pretty much the same. Similar detail and an overall excellent image.

    With service menu limitations in the current sets, you can actually do more to the old X81 sets than the current sets.

    Regards
     
  6. Sean Patrick

    Sean Patrick Supporting Actor

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    once you put the set in MOVIE mode, doesn't it revert back to non-movie mode if any color/contrast/brightness parameters are changed?

    and the 56-pt convergence is fairly easy once you get into service mode?
     
  7. JohnHN

    JohnHN Stunt Coordinator

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    On movie mode: the set stays in movie mode even if contrast etc are adjusted; in particular svm remains disabled. This can be verified by looking at the needle pulse on Avia or VE.

    On 56pt convergence, I thought it was a snap, even without a template (I used string and a ruler). BUT everyone should treat service mode with respect. It is possible to do seriously bad things to the set by screwing around with parameters you don't understand. Go to the Home Theater Spot for more on this.
     
  8. Sean Patrick

    Sean Patrick Supporting Actor

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    i think i'm really leaning towards a 42H81. Although a couple of othr issues that have come up DO concern me:

    1) I plan on using a RP91 progressive scan dvd player with this TV, and I've heard that the up-converting that the TV does from 480 to the higher resolution degrades the picture. The whole point of using progressive scan dvd was that I wanted a "pure" signal - are there other 16:9 sets that don't have to "upconvert" a progressive signal?

    2) just how bad is the "ghosting" issue? since all the sets seem to have it, how bad does this actually look?

    3) assuming "MOVIE" mode defeats SVM, how is the overall versatility of the set in terms of being able to tweak focus/covergence WITHOUT having to spend big bucks on ISF or opening up the face of the screen? The focus and covergence of my TW40X81 was pretty bad out of the box and I could never get convergence/focus quite right with either of the sets i owned.

    thanks
     
  9. Steve Schaffer

    Steve Schaffer Producer

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    Sean,
    Toshiba and Hitachi both do the 480p to 540p conversion. Sony and Mitsubishi still pass 480p natively. I don't know what Pioneer's new sets do.
     
  10. Sean Patrick

    Sean Patrick Supporting Actor

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    hmmm...so how much does this "upconversion" affect the picture? does it defeat the purpose of a dvd player like the RP91??
     
  11. Michael TLV

    Michael TLV THX Video Instructor/Calibrator

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    Greetings

    High resolution detail on the Progressive scan signal is lost as a result of the upconversion process.

    The very fine detail is obscured and the near fine detail gets a "horizontal banding" interference effect.

    The AVIA TVL 200 pattern is perfect for demonstrating what is lost in the process and what nasty side effects are added.

    Regards
     
  12. Sean Patrick

    Sean Patrick Supporting Actor

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    could this be why some people are unimpressed with progressive dvd's with this tv?

    actually, this could steer me away from this TV. since 3/4 of my viewing will be dvd's on this set, and since i'm planning to get a progressive dvd player, wouldn't i want a tv that displayed 480? which current models display this?
     
  13. Chris PC

    Chris PC Producer

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    I am curious about these TV's myself. I don't like the line doubling I see in some sets, but I can't remember if it was Toshiba or panasonic. The line-doubling of NTSC cable was absolutely horrible. So much information was lost that you couldn't read lettering on the boards at a hockey game etc. Maybe the cable was bad or it was bad satelitte TV?

    What is SVM?

    Also, I can't understand buying these sets and having to PAY to have them tweaked. Shouldn't the manufacturer garantee a proper geometry/alignment and colour? Or is that because each owner is using different sources with their own TV?
     

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