Too warm, need brightness!

Discussion in 'Archived Threads 2001-2004' started by itai, Jul 9, 2002.

  1. itai

    itai Stunt Coordinator

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    Hi all
    I find myself tuning the treble up, god forbid!..., because i think my setup isnt bright enough. not always, but at least 60% of the stuff I hear (ht and music alike), needs more resolution. the info is there, but it need some encouregment to reveal itself...
    it's a Denon 3802, mated to Paradigm Studio 60v2's, a CC and a couple of ADP's.
    I have it for six months now, and I was thinking, maybe it needs better cables, cause I'm using the wires I got from the shop. (bi-wired, kinda thick looking cable).
    as you can see I'm no expert, just want the detail!
    btw, my hearing is good, i also see and smell normally!
    [​IMG]
     
  2. John F. Palacio

    John F. Palacio Supporting Actor

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    IMHO: If turning up the treble does the trick for you then by all means. Why spend the money on "tone control" cables?
    I know there will be purists out there that would say "no way José" and will advise you to get other speakers:"On the other hand, it may well be those speakers aren't for you and perhaps something like klipsch might be more in order" or what have you.
    I have not hesitated to use tone controls (always slightly) to tailor sound to my room acoustics/speakers/taste
     
  3. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    glad to hear the vitals signs are ok! cables aren't going to solve your problem. they are not tone controls. usually people want to take the edge off things so to speak. what've you done in the way of calibrating your system and working on the positioning of the speakers? they're not tucked away in the corners are they? are they toed in (you can use an inexpensive laser pointer to help)? where are the tweeters with respect to your ears? maybe lifting them a bit might matters better. is your room unusual in the sense that its a peculiar shape?
    kicking up the treble is not necessarily a bad thing after all our likes/dislikes vary from person to person and of course none of our rooms are the same.
    On the other hand, it may well be those speakers aren't for you and perhaps something like klipsch might be more in order. some consider those bright, myself i don't see it that way.
     
  4. steve nn

    steve nn Cinematographer

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    That's what got me to thinking of the Klipsch line. This Friday I am going to get the 3-center and try it out. If that goes well I think I will get the 3-towers next. I wander if my wife will notice a new center when she gets back from her trip? I have the level three center and do like it but I think I would like my center more tighter and non ported.
     
  5. Justin Doring

    Justin Doring Screenwriter

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    Yikes! Paradigm speakers are bright enough! While the Denon is on the warm side, I certainly wouldn't characterize your system as being overly warm.

    If you want brighter, however, I'd recommend Kimber interconnects, speaker cables, and powercords. They're the brightest I've come across. Of course if that's not enough brightness for you, there's always Klipsch speakers and Yamaha receivers. My ears are bleeding already!
     
  6. Shane Martin

    Shane Martin Producer

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  7. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    On an empirical electrical parameter basis one would think moving to an extrememly low inductance cable would be the approach to take. However Shane, I've yet seen the ability for anyone, either personally or otherwise, be able to reliably distinguish between wires when its done in testing involving level matching under blind conditions. Maybe one day we two will get that chance [​IMG] I only report the results and if you think about it, doing it blind or preferably DBT allows one to aspire to the audiophile mantra...'trust your ears'. But that's getting besides the point. If you want, we can discuss this in another thread or between ourselves.
    There's a whole lot more information that needs to be understood in itai's situation. Right now he's expressing a need to up his treble and seems perplexed and in some ways dismayed that he's done so. Anyone who reads the audiophile stuff that's out there is well aware of the 'nose in the air' attitude about some when it comes to tone controls or even equalization for that matter. They pay for the concept of 'less is more'. So let's figure out what's going on in itai's particular listening environment. Myself, I'd love a picture of his layout.
     
  8. Phil Mays

    Phil Mays Second Unit

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    itai,

    I too like a "brighter" sound if you will. I have an Onkyo TX-DS 797, Kimber Kable, and Klipsch speakers. For home theater it's "all good".

    However I am much more "picky" about my music, so I forced an equilizer on my system. I had to run it through the tape section of receiver with CD player in line as the Onkyo eliminated the tape 2 option. I do not know about the 3802. I do not know if I have degridaded the sound wave any, but it sure sounds better to me.

    To me this solved my problem.

    Phil
     
  9. Mark Austin

    Mark Austin Supporting Actor

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    I too think cables could help. Nordost is known to brighten things up a bit, they might give you just what you're looking for. Also check to see if your tweeters are at ear level.
     
  10. John Royster

    John Royster Screenwriter

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    Play around with your speaker placement as you can easily change the sound this way.

    IN GENERAL
    1) away from back wall means more imaging, less bass.
    2) away from side wall means better imaging, less harsh.

    I'm thinking if you system is on the warm side (to me paradigms are quite bright) then maybe try pulling the speakers into the room more? Are the tweeters about ear level?

    -edit- this is the first thing I would try. Then I'd be looking at the source, then I'd be looking at the cables especially interconnects.
     
  11. Jeff James

    Jeff James Agent

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    Yeah, I would have to agree with you all...Klipsch are very bright sounding. They'll blow you outta the room! The reference series center channel is one of the cleanest and most detailed center's I've heard in the market. I just love that speaker and I think a bright sound is perfect for a center channel. Everyone has an opinion though.

    -J
     
  12. Will Gibbons

    Will Gibbons Agent

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    Try toe-in where the main speakers are pointed to the listening position. You may also want to slightly change the pitch elevation of your mains and your center where ear level is in-line with tweeters--a laser pointer is quite handy for it.

    Regards,
    Will
     
  13. Marc H

    Marc H Second Unit

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    Try listening with the speaker grills off too. I find those speakers sound a fair bit brighter with the grills off.
     
  14. itai

    itai Stunt Coordinator

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    hey, thanks guys, wow, how many replies!...
    ok, first of all, i auditioned klipsch ref series back then, and liked the paradigms better. i thoght the klipsch would be harsh over time. i mean, they were amazing, but too much. the digms seemed more civilized, and i have to say i just love them!!!
    the only replacement that i'll consider is to upgrade the 60's to 100's (no brainer), or, cause i'll be getting a whole system from scratch in 2-3 months, a b&w cdm-nt setup, cause i liked it alot, but could'nt afford it. (now i can...)
    i'll sure audition new stuff (curious about psb stratus gold-i), so these are my favorites currently.
    ok, what i was thinking is a slightly brighter than usual power amp.
    if you can advise me on those up to 2k amps that can add a litle, not too much, brightness, i think i'll be happy.
    either 5 or 7 ch, cause the denon is staying, it can drive those back surrounds.
    as to placement, the tweeters are ear level, the mains slightly toed in, and have about 2 ft from walls, its a 16x16 square room (see url), kinda standard (as in no side walls for dipoles!...), about 50% ocupied (you know, with stuff)
    http://www.geocities.com/itaibachar/...?1026415930819
    will, what's pitch elevetion?
    thanks all
    [​IMG] [​IMG]
     
  15. John Royster

    John Royster Screenwriter

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    I'd suggest pulling the speakers out some making sure they are very much in front of the TV and toeing in a little more.
     
  16. John F. Palacio

    John F. Palacio Supporting Actor

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    "ok, what i was thinking is a slightly brighter than usual power amp.
    if you can advise me on those up to 2k amps that can add a litle, not too much, brightness, i think i'll be happy."
    Except you mentioned in your initial post that you needed a "brighter" sound 60% of the time. So now you spend $2K and buy an amp that sounds good for that 60% which means it will be too bright the other 40%. And then what? Turn the treble down? Why don't you save the 2K and turn the treble up a bit for that 60% and back to normal for the other 40? You already have speakers you like a lot!
    Can somebody point out where am I wrong?
     
  17. dean_g

    dean_g Agent

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    Sell those Canadian speakers and get yourself a set of Klipsch RF3II's ($800), Klipsch RF5's ($1500), or Klipsch RF7's ($2200).

    It's not necessarily 'brightness' that you are looking for, because Paradigm leans towards the cooler side of neutral anyways.

    What you are looking for, and attempting to do with that tone control, is to add a 'real' life dimension to the sound. Realistic reproduction of macro and micro dynamics are best accomplished with horn loading.

    Go take a listen.
     
  18. John F. Palacio

    John F. Palacio Supporting Actor

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    "Realistic reproduction of macro and micro dynamics are best accomplished with horn loading." Huh?
     
  19. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    this is all too confusing to me. i'd certainly like to be the salesman though [​IMG] Having your best interests at heart (and my commision) I'd opt for actively biamping your system.
     
  20. itai

    itai Stunt Coordinator

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    adding an amp is part of my plan, so that new component can take the system towards brightness, i'm not spending 2k for treble...
    ok, i get the hint, i'll audition klipsch...
    thanks guys.
     

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