Thor: Love and Thunder (2022) (1 Viewer)

[Sam Favate]

I enjoy the Thor films, even Dark World, which seems to be everyone's least favorite. The movies are all elevated by Anthony Hopkins and Tom Hiddleston, both of whom enhance everything they are in. Dark World has the best use of the supporting characters, the Warriors Three and Lady Sif. It's a shame we haven't seen more of them. I'm hopeful Sif makes her return in Love and Thunder (the Warriors Three, were unfortunately casually dispatched in Ragnarok, one of the only low points of that script).

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I'll give it a shot! Maybe I'll even like "Ragnarok" this time!

I honestly was disappointed by the movie when I saw it in theaters, but grew to love it at home. My first home viewing was much more fun than the theatrical, and every time since has been a blast. You kinda need to be in the right mood for it since it’s irreverent sense of humor can seem like an obnoxious tonal shift if it’s not what you’re in the mood for.

 

[Jake Lipson]

I liked the first two Thor movies, but they aren't as distinctive as some of the other Marvel franchises. After The Dark World, I wouldn't have expected that Thor would be the first MCU character to go to a fourth solo movie, but Ragnarok freshened and revitalized it enough to make me want another one, so I'm glad we're getting one now. His story does not feel finished.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

I enjoy the Thor films, even Dark World, which seems to be everyone's least favorite.

Not me - "Ragnarok" is my least fave, and by a wide margin!

 

[Colin Jacobson]

I honestly was disappointed by the movie when I saw it in theaters, but grew to love it at home. My first home viewing was much more fun than the theatrical, and every time since has been a blast. You kinda need to be in the right mood for it since it’s irreverent sense of humor can seem like an obnoxious tonal shift if it’s not what you’re in the mood for.

It's that "tonal shift" I dislike, mainly because it turns Thor into a goofball.

I suspect the tonal shift will seem even more blatant when I go through the triple feature. At least the Avengers movies made Thor a little more comedic, whereas I think it's gonna be a major shift from the Thor of the 1st 2 movies to "Ragnarok" without the other flicks between "DW" and "Rag"...

 

[Colin Jacobson]

I liked the first two Thor movies, but they aren't as distinctive as some of the other Marvel franchises. After The Dark World, I wouldn't have expected that Thor would be the first MCU character to go to a fourth solo movie, but Ragnarok freshened and revitalized it enough to make me want another one, so I'm glad we're getting one now. His story does not feel finished.

Thor is the easiest of the "trilogies" to extend. A 4th Cap would have to ignore the end of "Endgame"/be a flashback/prequel - or use Falcon as Cap.

A 4th Iron Man would need to do the same.

Thor is the only one of the 3 characters to have 3 movies who's left intact at the end of "Endgame". Fat, but still available for more action!

 

[Jake Lipson]

Well yeah -- I wasn't actually saying I expect them to do a fourth Iron Man or Captain America -- but of course we didn't know how Endgame would end their stories. Thor went on such a journey between Ragnarok and the two Thanos films that it really made it feel like there's a lot more to be done with him, whereas Tony and Steve reached natural conclusions.

(That being said, on the off chance that Chris Evans wanted to reprise the role in a while, I do think it would be fun to see him in the '50s with Peggy for a standalone adventure.)

 

[Tommy R]

I liked the first two Thor movies, but they aren't as distinctive as some of the other Marvel franchises.

Interesting, as I found them to be the most distinctive of the MCU.

I definitely saw The Dark World as not as good as the first, but I still enjoy it. I missed Ragnarok in the cinema as I had a lot of things going on around that time and had enough problems getting out to see The Last Jedi. I really wished I could have seen it on the big screen, especially when I finally saw it at home. It’s a wonderfully fun and wacky movie. It actually re-vitalized My interest in the MCU and caught up on everything I missed before Infinity War came out.

 

[Sean Bryan]

Thor is the easiest of the "trilogies" to extend. A 4th Cap would have to ignore the end of "Endgame"/be a flashback/prequel - or use Falcon as Cap.

A 4th Iron Man would need to do the same.

Thor is the only one of the 3 characters to have 3 movies who's left intact at the end of "Endgame". Fat, but still available for more action!

Cap lived an entire lifetime between when he stepped onto the time travel platform and when we saw him again as an old man moments later. Unlimited potential there for more stories. Both period adventures and high concept time travel/alternate reality stories.

 

[Jake Lipson]

Unlimited potential there for more stories. Both period adventures and high concept time travel/alternate reality stories.

I agree that the potential exists, but if Evans doesn't want to do it, the ending he got feels complete because we can imagine a life for him and Peggy on our own without having to see it. As opposed to Thor, where his leaving New Asgard and going off with the Guardians felt like a new beginning and a more natural invitation for more storytelling. It also probably helps that Hemsworth has struggled to find box office success when not appearing as Thor, and therefore is incentivized to keep going from a financial as well as creative standpoint.

 

[Sean Bryan]

I agree that the potential exists, but if Evans doesn't want to do it, the ending he got feels complete because we can imagine a life for him and Peggy on our own without having to see it. As opposed to Thor, where his leaving New Asgard and going off with the Guardians felt like a new beginning and a more natural invitation for more storytelling. It also probably helps that Hemsworth has struggled to find box office success when not appearing as Thor, and therefore is incentivized to keep going from a financial as well as creative standpoint.

My comments on the potential for more Cap stories was in no way a counter to their being potential for more Thor stories. More Thor is, frankly, an obvious no brainer. Just pointing out that while Cap‘s story “can” be done, he also has unlimited potential for big stuff if he and Marvel wanted to explore that years down the road. I’d LOVE to see that kind of Cap stuff, but I’d also wait at least 5 years or longer before revisiting the character, letting his “ending” stick for a good long while. With Thor, I feel like we’re near the beginning (maybe the middle) of new character arcs so he’s one that we really want to see more of ASAP. I really hope that after Love and Thunder he is in a position to still be a major player in future Avengers (or some other big crossover) movies.

 

[Jake Lipson]

really hope that after Love and Thunder he is in a position to still be a major player in future Avengers (or some other big crossover) movies.

I think that depends upon how long Hemsworth wants to continue playing the role. I also don't really like the idea of Jane Foster as a "female Thor." I have no problem with her being a strong female character who is worthy to wield the hammer, and I think that is very exciting. But Thor isn't a title like Captain America is a title that can be passed from Steve to Sam. It's this specific character's name, so I don't much like the idea of Jane "replacing him" as Thor. I hope they don't go that route. But certainly, they could, if Hemsworth gets to a point where he wants to leave. Because they've parted ways with Downy and Evans, I imagine Disney/Marvel will be happy to keep Hemsworth around as long as he wants to keep doing it.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

Cap lived an entire lifetime between when he stepped onto the time travel platform and when we saw him again as an old man moments later. Unlimited potential there for more stories. Both period adventures and high concept time travel/alternate reality stories.

But how could Cap have operated in that timeline? He had to keep himself hidden!

 

[Colin Jacobson]

I agree that the potential exists, but if Evans doesn't want to do it, the ending he got feels complete because we can imagine a life for him and Peggy on our own without having to see it.

That's why I don't want "Cap in the 50s" or whatever. It might sound fun on the surface, but the character ended in such a satisfying manner - leave Cap alone!

And as I mentioned, I really don't see how Cap could've heroed in that era. Wouldn't people have noticed some star-spangled superhero with a shield?

 

[Jake Lipson]

And as I mentioned, I really don't see how Cap could've heroed in that era. Wouldn't people have noticed some star-spangled superhero with a shield?

Yes, but who's to say they didn't? He went back into an alternate timeline. It's entirely possible that after his dance with Peggy, he called Howard Stark and said, "I'm back and we need to talk." He probably used his knowledge of "our" MCU timeline to make that reality better, which probably included shutting down HYDRA's takeover of SHIELD much earlier than The Winter Soldier, among other things. That's what would make such a project interesting if they wanted to do it, because we could see how Steve is still sort of a man out of time even though he has returned to his original time period, and how his experiences in the present day influence his life in the '50s.

Theoretically, I would be on board with that if at some point Chris Evans, and the Russo brothers, and Markus and McFeely, and Kevin Feige all thought it was a good idea that is worth pursuing. But if they don't, then, no.

 

[Sean Bryan]

But how could Cap have operated in that timeline? He had to keep himself hidden!

The rules of MCU time travel (as the characters understood them) were established in Endgame. You can’t bring everyone back by just going back in time and killing baby Thanos. You can’t undo the past. If you go back in time, any changes made from what originally happened would result in the creation of an alternate, parallel timeline. The same reason that the Thanos from 2013 (an alternate timeline Thanos) can be killed in 2023 yet the events of Infinity War still happened.

So when Steve decide to go back to the late 40’s and stay with Peggy he created a new timeline in which he lived out his life. He then crossed back over into the original timeline at some point to give Sam the new shield. This is what the Russos have said. If that is the case then he could have lived openly and helped create a new, better future. Now, the writers have a different interpretation of all this and say they think he “always” went back and was always there. So in that case he would have had to stay hidden from the general public’s knowledge. I go with what the directors say because they are the ones telling the story. But if it is the way the writers say it still doesn’t mean he couldn’t have had adventures keeping his identity hidden with his existence only being known to a select few. And if he retained the ability to travel through time and realities, then those adventures don’t even have to be in the past, they could be in the MCU’s future. He could “live his life” in the past, but periodically be drawn into adventures throughout the future which would even allow him to interact with Avengers in future movies.

 

[Sean Bryan]

Yes, but who's to say they didn't? He went back into an alternate timeline. It's entirely possible that after his dance with Peggy, he called Howard Stark and said, "I'm back and we need to talk." He probably used his knowledge of "our" MCU timeline to make that reality better, which probably included shutting down HYDRA's takeover of SHIELD much earlier than The Winter Soldier, among other things. That's what would make such a project interesting if they wanted to do it, because we could see how Steve is still sort of a man out of time even though he has returned to his original time period, and how his experiences in the present day influence his life in the '50s.

Theoretically, I would be on board with that if at some point Chris Evans, and the Russo brothers, and Markus and McFeely, and Kevin Feige all thought it was a good idea that is worth pursuing. But if they don't, then, no.

Exactly. The only limitation here would be a limit of imagination. The “can’t change the past” time travel concept presented in Endgame still seems to be hard for some folks to accept.

That being said, those rules were basically explained “as the characters understood them”. Meaning that they may not be 100% accurate or could be more complex with various exceptions. So future stories may wind up bending, or expanding on, those rules. But based on what was presented in THIS movie, that’s what we’re working with.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

Yes, but who's to say they didn't? He went back into an alternate timeline. It's entirely possible that after his dance with Peggy, he called Howard Stark and said, "I'm back and we need to talk." He probably used his knowledge of "our" MCU timeline to make that reality better, which probably included shutting down HYDRA's takeover of SHIELD much earlier than The Winter Soldier, among other things. That's what would make such a project interesting if they wanted to do it, because we could see how Steve is still sort of a man out of time even though he has returned to his original time period, and how his experiences in the present day influence his life in the '50s.

Theoretically, I would be on board with that if at some point Chris Evans, and the Russo brothers, and Markus and McFeely, and Kevin Feige all thought it was a good idea that is worth pursuing. But if they don't, then, no.

I strongly disagree that Steve went about "righting wrongs" in his alternate timeline. He would've been too committed to the idea of not mucking with the "real timeline".

Really can't believe that would've happened!

 

[Jake Lipson]

Except that according to Endgame's rules, just Steve's presence there makes it a new timeline. So there's no reason for him not to help improve it. The "real" timeline as you call it still happened regardless of whatever he did or didn't do, and his new one is no less real for him than the one that we saw. So it would be in his nature to do everything possible to make his new reality better than the old one.

 

[Colin Jacobson]

Except that according to Endgame's rules, just Steve's presence there makes it a new timeline. So there's no reason for him not to help improve it. The "real" timeline as you call it still happened regardless of whatever he did or didn't do, and his new one is no less real for him than the one that we saw. So it would be in his nature to do everything possible to make his new reality better than the old one.

I dunno. I still feel if any MCU character would be careful not to mess with the timeline, it'd be Steve.

Also, I feel like he knows everything will work out in the end(game). "Back in time" Steve just wants normal life, so I suspect he pursued that above all else...