The Upgraded Anthem AVM-20 2.1

JimmyK

Second Unit
Joined
Jun 21, 2002
Messages
479
Real Name
Jim
Subject: AVM20 V2.10 Notch filter and Bass Peak limiter problem
Interesting.

I do not plan to use the Bass Peak Limiter feature, but I was going to try out the notch filter.

Your post brings up a few questions.

Does the notch filter only work on the sub output?

Does the notch filter only work on the Cinema setting (or only the Music setting)? Or should it work on both settings even if they are different?

More detail on the workings of this feature would be very helpful.

Thanks!

JimmyK
 

Michael Mohrmann

Screenwriter
Joined
Dec 30, 2001
Messages
1,394
Keith,

What may be occurring is that when you enter the setup menus, whatever source you have currently selected (i.e. DVD, SAT, CD, etc.) dictates the active speaker configuration. So, if are using the "Music" configuration for the CD input, and you enter the setup menus, the notch filter and bass peak level menus assume that you do not have a sub.

In previous software versions, if your system was not configured for a sub, the bass peak level tests would be applied to the mains, as this is where the sub output has been rerouted. It is possible that the notch filter is doing the same thing.

I hate to say this, but I think the solution is to have a separate notch filter settings and bass peak levels for the "Cinema" and "Music" configurations. The reason I say this is because I believe that these settings affect the "subwoofer" channel. If you have set one of the configurations to have no sub, then this channel gets sent to the mains.

Looks like something to test tonight!


Michael
 

Wayne_T

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Jun 15, 2001
Messages
236
I've now joined the 2.10 crowd. Installed last night, and played around a bit with the setups today. Everything seems to be working correctly. Haven't had the time yet to try any of the new advanced features.

First impressions:
Extremely easy install.
Assigning one input to multiple sources is great. Allows me to remove one cable, which is a good thing.
I think it sounds better, but as has been said by others this could be my imagination. But my wife said it definitely sounded better, which is a great thing, even if it is her imagination.
Once again, Anthem has their act together.

Can anyone offer an explanation as to why the new software could have resulted in better sound?

Cheers
 

Chas_T

Supporting Actor
Joined
Jun 1, 2002
Messages
758
If anyone is interested, check the specs at the end of the owner's manual compared to v2.0x. You will notice a 2dB S/N improvement for the digital and analog-DSP inputs, and oddly, a 1dB improvement for the 6 channel input.
Michael.. You finally let the cat out of the bag and said it!!
 

Michael Mohrmann

Screenwriter
Joined
Dec 30, 2001
Messages
1,394
Keith,

Thanks for pointing out the issue with the bass peak level and notch filter settings for the particular setup you described. While I wouldn't call it a bug, I would say that the single bass peak level setting and single notch filter setting prohibits you from using the "Cinema" and "Music" configurations as you are ("Cinema" with sub, "Music" without sub).

From the testing I just completed, it appears that the bass peak level and notch filter settings are based on whatever the "Music" configuration is set to. So, with your setup, with "Cinema" set for 5.1 and "Music" set for 2.0 (mains only), the test tones were being played in the mains (which to me initially sounded like they were coming from all speakers, but testing for cone movement I found this limited to the mains).

The interesting part is that I reversed your setup (sort of) by setting "Cinema" to 5.0 and "Music" to 5.1. When I did this, the test tones were being played by the subwoofer. So, I am fairly certain that the "Music" configuration (which can be set to the same as "Cinema") drives the output for the bass peak level and notch filter test tones.

The obvious solution would be to have the bass peak level and notch filter settings available for "Cinema" and "Music" separately (when "Music" is not set to "Cinema"). The only problem is that there may not be the room in the software to add this.

Michael
 

Michael Mohrmann

Screenwriter
Joined
Dec 30, 2001
Messages
1,394
Keith,

Ok - that is an easy work around but I do have one worry. Was this a 'settings' only bug or does it apply to run-time? i.e. if I change my Music config back to only 2 Large speakers and no sub, will the settings I made in the notch filter and peak bass limiter not apply to my Cinema settings?
When you set up the bass peak level and notch filter settings with the subwoofer on, these will be applied when you select a source mapped to "Cinema". That isn't the issue. The issue is when you select a source mapped to "Music".

In your setup, the bass peak level and notch filters settings have been "optimized" for the subwoofer, not the mains. These settings will affect the main's output when using the "Music" configuration. That may or may not be a desired affect.

BTW, if the sources you have mapped to "Music" are being played in analog bypass mode, then the bass peak level and notch filter settings are bypassed.

Michael
 

Michael Mohrmann

Screenwriter
Joined
Dec 30, 2001
Messages
1,394
Brian,

- SVHS, DVD, Tivo, Svideo out on HD - all go through Svideo switching in AVM-20 then the monitor output goes to iScan+, which then goes to component video switching on AVM-20.
Ouch! You are double-routing the video for most of your sources. I am not surprised at the delay in the video switching, especially since the iScan+ has to relock the signal every time you change to a source using the S-Video switching.

Whereas before your iScan+ just locked onto the Tivo as its only source, which probably didn't take much time, now the signal to the iScan+ is probably lost for a split-second while you switch sources in the AVM-20, causing a small delay needed to relock the signal.

You could always set up your system (temporarily) like you did before to see if the video switching performance is still poor.

Michael
 

Brian Fitterman

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Mar 26, 2002
Messages
243
Michael, I think you got. I never thought of that before. The iScan with only the Tivo going to it, never unlocked since the Tivo never turns the video output off unless you put it in standby mode (I never do). That would explain the faster switching in the older setup.

Thanks...
 

Levesque

Supporting Actor
Joined
Mar 21, 2002
Messages
586
Was finally able to find a cable and perform the upgrade. Work the 1st time I tried it, and flawlessly. Now will have to play with it tonight.

Michael Mohrmann

I think we (all the people hangin-out here owning or not a Anthem AVM20) should nominated you has "Anthem AVM20 helper of the year"! I think everyone will agree that you are always helpful, polite, precise and you seem to always take the time to find the exact answer before posting it here to help us. There is never a question that slip past your vigilance! You answer each and every questions.

I can't believe the dedication and time you are putting on the forums to make our experience with the Anthem AVM20 more enjoyable and easier.


In all the forums, there is a lot of selfish people that never say thanks.


I the name of all the silent majority, I say a warm thank you.

Bravo!
 

Chas_T

Supporting Actor
Joined
Jun 1, 2002
Messages
758
I think we (all the people hangin-out here owning or not a Anthem AVM20) should nominated you has "Anthem AVM20 helper of the year"! I think everyone will agree that you are always helpful, polite, precise and you seem to always take the time to find the exact answer before posting it here to help us. There is never a question that slip past your vigilance! You answer each and every questions.
Lévesque

I've been thinking the same thing as you have written here ever since I've joined this thread and purchased the AVM-20. This guy is stellar not only on the HTF forum, but many others as well.

I've thanked him personally via email, but I am happy someone took the time again, to recognize his efforts and dedication to us.

Michael is a humble man if my suspicions are correct and often recognition of his efforts slide through the cracks. In my eyes, we are all fortunate that he decided to purchase the same product as we have. In fact without Michael's influence through his writing and the respect I've gained for him, I may have bought another product. Without his persistence and dedication, we'd all be in deep do-da.

Many THANKS to Michael and of course, his wife too as I am sure she sacrifices her time just as much as Michael does in an indirect way! He has my vote too!

Charles
 

Mike Loiterman

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Jan 24, 2000
Messages
212
One question I have:

I have a "Fogg" box. Basically its a box that plugs into your 6ch input and gives you two 6ch in. So, I have the box plugged into the 6ch in and then I have my SACD player and my DVD-A plyer pluged into the Fogg box.

In order to switch input on the Fogg box I use a trigger. Right now, I have use Zone 2 DVD input to trigger the box on and the Main DVD input to trigger the box off.

Can I do away with this workaround now that you can assign multple source to one input?

Also at the bottom of pgae 30, the note box.

It says that once you engage THX Bass/Treb *speaker leve* and Balance are set to +0.0db. How can this be?
 

Michael Mohrmann

Screenwriter
Joined
Dec 30, 2001
Messages
1,394
Mike,

You will still need to use the "Fogg" box with the Zone 2 trigger setup. With v2.10, the digital inputs (coax, Toslink, XLR) can be mapped to most any input (except FM/AM and 6 channel), but the analog inputs are mapped only to their respective input.

Also at the bottom of pgae 30, the note box.

It says that once you engage THX Bass/Treb *speaker leve* and Balance are set to +0.0db. How can this be?
Is it the *speaker level* part that has you concerned? This is the "individual speaker level" that you can change on the fly and overrides what you have set up in the calibration menus.

Michael
 

Mike Loiterman

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Jan 24, 2000
Messages
212
Is it the *speaker level* part that has you concerned? This is the "individual speaker level" that you can change on the fly and overrides what you have set up in the calibration menus.
I knew there was something I was missing.

More questions:
It the Readme First document that come with the update it says to just turn off the Anthem OR unplug the power cable before doing the upgrade. In the manual, however, it says turn off the Anthem *AND* disconnect the power cord. With disconnect the power cord in bold.

In the past, I've just turned off the Anthem. Is this a new requirement? The reason I ask, is because its sort of a pain for me to unplug the unit vs just turning it off.
 

Michael Mohrmann

Screenwriter
Joined
Dec 30, 2001
Messages
1,394
Mike,

It the Readme First document that come with the update it says to just turn off the Anthem OR unplug the power cable before doing the upgrade. In the manual, however, it says turn off the Anthem *AND* disconnect the power cord. With disconnect the power cord in bold.
The AVM-20 owner's manuals have always said this, even back to v1.1x. The README that comes with the installer is a little more specific: "3. Turn the power switch at the rear of your AVM 20 off, or disconnect the power cord to prevent the possibility of a static discharge when the serial port is connected."

Note that this is not the same as just turning off the power via the remote or the front panel switch. It is a matter of removing power completely from the AVM-20 either by the back panel power switch or the disconnecting of the power cord. In my case, I have always used the power switch.

Michael
 

Mike Loiterman

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Jan 24, 2000
Messages
212
When I say I've turned it off, I meant from the back panel switch. No...I would never just turn it off from the remote or front panel.

I'll do my upgrade tonight while my finance sleeps to avoid any downtime for her.

Not looking forward to recalibrating and redoing all my settings though.
 

Michael Mohrmann

Screenwriter
Joined
Dec 30, 2001
Messages
1,394
Mike,

Not looking forward to recalibrating and redoing all my settings though.
It sounds like most people have had their settings retained going to v2.10, so you may get lucky. It was during beta testing that some testers lost their settings (I was one). I would still recalibrate the sound levels though. Something in the AVM-20's software has changed that requires that you do that.

Michael
 

Mike Loiterman

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Jan 24, 2000
Messages
212
I plan on recalibrating everything...but I'm a perfectionist, so it takes a while and its a pain in the butt.

I'm still reading the manual so that I understand everything before I do the upgrade.
 

Mike Loiterman

Stunt Coordinator
Joined
Jan 24, 2000
Messages
212
Finally did the upgrade.

All went smooth. Recovered most settings. Almost fully setup.

I'm having trouble getting started with my speaker configuration. I don't know where to start. Should I listen to newer, bass heavy movies or more neutral ones? I watch a good mix of the two. For the music, what sort of material will yield the most accurate results when verifiying my settings?

I have Paradigm 60's Studio center and the 20's for the rear. Can someone give me some basic settings, with respect to crossover points, to get started with?
 

JimmyK

Second Unit
Joined
Jun 21, 2002
Messages
479
Real Name
Jim
Does the notch filter only work on the sub output?
Anyone?

My impression is that it only works on the sub output since the test tone only goes up to the sub crossover frequency according to the manual.

I ask because I would like to tame a bump in the lower range of the R&L speaker (approx 85hz to 125hz). It seems like the notch filter would be suited for this task if it did affect that frequency range regardless of from which channels it's coming.

Right now, I've got the sub crossover set to 80hz and all other channels set to 150hz to try to tame the bump. Testing the response using 1/6 octave warble tones it seems this fix was mostly successful, but I would like to see if the notch filter would be better suited for the task.

However, I would rather not go through all the trouble of taking all new measurements and trying different settings if it turns out that the notch filter will not affect the channels other than the sub.

Thanks for your time and info!


JimmyK
 

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