The High School/College Thread (1 Viewer)

[Mark Dubbelboer]

my pet peeves generally involve fellow students.

things like whisperers, or when people ask really dumb questions, or people that can't decide if they're cold or not and keep taking off then putting on their coats.
I also hate it when someone comes and sits beside you when there's plenty of other places...the two post-secondary institutions i've attended have those really small like arm rests to write on, i like to have an open desk so i can have room to move my notebook around without hitting the person beside me...

professor wise as long as they can speak english properly i'm good to go.

 

[CaseyLS]

Dome- thanks for the kind words. I feel I did alright on my tests this morning. One more to go this week and I will be ready to party as Sunday is my 21st birthday.

 

[Tony-B]

I've got a quiz in Spanish today and a test in Geography. Not too bad, but I think I will do just fine.

I will be ready to party as Sunday is my 21st birthday

Oh no. I hope you don't get too wasted!

 

[Chris Bardon]

What happens when you smoke the enantiomer of nicotine? Support your answer with details

How is this not a fair question? Was it possible to write four long answer questions in the time frame given? Just because there were no "simple" or "straightforward" questions doesn't mean it was a bad exam. I actually think that questions like this are excellent ways of finding out not only what students know, but how well they really understand the material. I've had to deal with questions like this a few times, and I'd much rather respond to something like this than a basic regurgitation or plug-n-play question.

 

[Mike Wladyka]

Integrate Natural Exponents:

Int (a^u)du = 1/(ln a^u) * a^u + C

for problems like 5^x

does that help? or did you want something other than that?

All i can say, is i graduated this past december, and for all of you struggling through college, let me tell you once you get out it is well worth it...i like working so much more than college.

 

[Dome Vongvises]

Chris Bardon said:

The unfairness of this question derives from the fact that A.It comes at the end of the exam after four other essay questions and B. the question doesn't reflect the thought processes/levels involved with sample questions/problems that had been given during the lecture material.

I guess some elaboration is in order. I'll start with point A first.

As a fellow organic chemistry class taker, we often compare/contrast professors to see who has it easier and whatnot. Evidently, this professor my friend took was a hard ass.

At some point, he posted the answers to the entire exam. The exam consisted of fifteen multple choice, ten short answer/sketches, and four essay questions. The essays were at the end of the tests.

Professors are strange when it comes to tests. Everything is easy to them. When you factor in being careful and taking your time to properly answer questions, you leave very little room for essays questions, most of which require you to skip checking over them to make sure if everything's been written correctly.

I've always been taught my entire life to always check over your answers, make sure you answered every question in a concise and proper manner, and to show your work (most important in physics and mathematics).

But professors exist on a totally different level than students, and no answer ever seems to satisfy them. When you factor in elaboration and supportive details, you're left with essays that are miniature books. And Professors are sticklers for time.

BTW, nobody correctly answered the question.

I'll use an analogy for part B. Let's say you're taught how to use a hand gun for four weeks. You learn how to fire it, unload the magazine, reload it, blah blah blah. During test time, the professor would expect you to be able to fire an automatic.

I'll say more, but I've got lab work to do.

 

[CaseyLS]

Speaking of essays, my history teacher told us yesterday's test would have 3 essays on it out of a possible seven. He gave us the 7 and told us to know each of them very well, as he would assign them to us. As it turns out, when I walked into the room he told me there would be one essay and we would have our choice. THANKS LEIF I wasted many hours making mediocre outlines for each one when I could have made 1 or 2 great ones and studied for my other 2 tests that morning. I feel like I got

 

[Darren Davis]

ahahah, I have to laugh because I've had more than one teacher pull the same thing on me. When it comes down to it, teachers are people, too, and usually have lives outside of school. It is *much* easier to grade essays all on the same prompt, especially if it needs to contain a wealth of names and dates along with the analysis.

 

[CaseyLS]

But when he told us about the test he had already printed it, which means it was always 1 essay. That's what I am kind of mad about.

 

[Chris Bardon]

I'll use an analogy for part B. Let's say you're taught how to use a hand gun for four weeks. You learn how to fire it, unload the magazine, reload it, blah blah blah. During test time, the professor would expect you to be able to fire an automatic.

Maybe it's just me, but I see this as par for the course. Using your analogy, the professor has taught not only the basic mechanics of using a handgun, but the theory that goes along with it. Someone who only memorizes exactly what they were taught would probably fail at this test. If, however, you understand WHY you're doing each step of the process, as well as what it is supposed to accomplish, then you should be able to apply your existing knowledge to a new situation. This might fall apart with this analogy (and I really can't take it much further knowing nothing about guns), but for a University level course, it shouldn't be that much of a surprise.

 

[Dome Vongvises]

If, however, you understand WHY you're doing each step of the process, as well as what it is supposed to accomplish, then you should be able to apply your existing knowledge to a new situation.

Not necessarily.

I didn't go further with the anaglogy because I have a lab report due in.....eight hours.

With guns, you're dealing with different calibers of bullets, different techniques of holding the gun, and with an automatic, you have selection of one round burst, three round burst, or fully automatic. About the only thing you have in common between firing the gun and firing an automatic is pulling the trigger.

I can understand what your saying Chris, but the fact is that the simple basic principle of things can't always explain a complicated situation. A clear cut example of this is the Nerst equation and the chord equation.

And to return to the analogy of using firearms, my argument still stands. You're given plenty of time and repetition to learn and understand the basic fundamentals involved with the care/mechanics of handguns. But when you're given an automatic on the test with a limited amount of time to work/explain it, that discrepancy simply isn't fair.

And this relates to not just my friend's problems, but my own as well. You're given a set of questions/problems that illustrate the basic fundamental principles behind whatever it is you're learning. There's a certain caliber and difficulty to it. But come actual exam time, the difficulty and caliber of the questions is raised several notches.

I don't know, maybe this analogy will help Chris.

You're taught how to hit a baseball. In practice, your hitting coaches tells you the proper stance, the proper swing, and the proper timing to hit the ball. And all day long and in every practice, you're being pitched fast balls. There's some variance as to how the fast the ball is pitched, but nonetheless you keep swinging at fast balls. You keep pracitcing at it and eventually you're good at hitting fast balls.

Now comes game time. You can hit the fast balls pretty well because you've practiced it. But the pitcher starts throwing curves balls, sliders, and even the dreaded knuckle ball. Sure you understand the basic principles behind swinging a bat. You know there's a certain way you're supposed to shift your weight when you swing. But that doesn't necessarily mean you're going to hit the ball. And here's where I have the problem: by the time you figure out how to compensate for these changes, the pitch is already made and you've struck out. And you're being held accountable for it.

And that's why I hate problems like that on a test. When you pracitce something, you're given all the time in the world. But when you do it for real, you don't have much time, but you're being held accountable for it.

One important factor I'm leaving out that professors never have in their logic process is doubt. During a test, you ask yourself this question: can I apply any princples I've learned to this situation? By the time you rationalize that you can/can't, the professor is asking you to turn in the test.

 

[Mike Wladyka]

Dome,

try to understand the crazy ass questions on tests like this. i had plenty of those types of tests. most, if not all, profs at the college level give these tests, why? because they need to seperate people into grades, it is not simply pass or fail, they need to have a way of placing people into A,B,C,D, and F ranges...This is the reason for A. timed tests and B. incredibly difficult questions. College is about understanding concepts, and not plugging and chugging...So the prof is testing the classes ability to apply concepts to completely foreign problems. Hardly ever in industry will you find a problem that is laid out before you in some book, but rather the problems contain subtle details and you are forced to solve brand new problems all the time...

Mike

 

[Dome Vongvises]

It's obvious people are missing the point of my posts. The key word here is time. Where in the beginning have I stated that professors shouldn't put hard questions on exams? I said this

My only exam pet peeve is when professors design questions/problems that aren't suitable relative to time constraints.

On my cellular and my graduate physiology exams, I'm given 1 1/2 to two hours to complete exams, which is plenty enough time to complete complex essays and multiple choice questions.

Using my cell biology example, we learned some of the principles regarding cellular signalling (G-protein coupled receptors, MAP Kinase cascade, etc. etc.) On the exam, we're given a "crazy ass question" that involves the discovery of a new kind of cellular signalling (just to prove I'm not making this shit up, Dr. Philip Bonner has this reputation of coming up with some crazy shit on exams). The key here is that we're given more than adequate amount of time on these tests. It's a hard question, but you're given a fair amount of time to properly answer the question.

It's certain tests (eg. Physics and chemistry) that bug the shit out of me. In most cases, you're given fifty to 1:15 minutes to complete.

Even when you have simple "plug and chug", the physical act of writing takes a long ass time. You'll find that a relatively easy problem (eg. Forces acting on box on a slope) takes a long time because you have to show your work (aka write every single step). You can forget checking to see if your answer is correct.

And then you're given crazy ass questions (eg. long answer or essay type) at the end of the test. The key word is thinking before you write. The thinking part alone takes up two to five minutes. The actual writing takes about ten more when you consider the amount of elaboration and detail you have to give to satisfy these people.

All I'm asking is that professors put some thought into making their tests. They are within every right to challenge their students to the extreme, but they should take into account if such questions can be answered within a reasonable amount of time. The vast majority of time, they don't. Take a look at any answer key, and you'll see five paragraph answers to one sentence problems.

Come to think of it, maybe it's just a chemistry and physics department problem.

 

[Mike Wladyka]

they need to have a way of placing people into A,B,C,D, and F ranges...This is the reason for A. timed tests and B. incredibly difficult questions.

i tried to address the time issue...as for physics and chemistry being different...
do other people in the class finish the tests in the alotted time? even if only a couple do finish the test, then the test is doing its job

 

[Seth--L]

This is why I prefer papers, and try to take only classes where your grade is mostly based on papers.

I had once professor who would hold exams at night. They'd start at 7:00pm, and he'd just say that he'd like to be home in time for South Park.

 

[Dome Vongvises]

do other people in the class finish the tests in the alotted time? even if only a couple do finish the test, then the test is doing its job

I see what you're saying. But a new problem arises. Professors are no longer truly evaluating what students know. They're simply just trying to fit into a statistic. Damn bell curves.....

During one of our recitations, our TA worked out one of last year's exam problems. He took the time to delineate all of his steps and explain each step of the way. It took him fifteen minutes.

That's ridiculous. You have to critically think about a problem before you can commit anything to paper. Even if you were to eliminate any "explanation" time, there's still thinking time involved with solving a problem. If it takes the TA fifteen minutes to do the problem, how can you expect students to finish something of the same caliber in ten to nine minutes?

Oh yeah, how did you do, Casey?

My physiology exam went really good. The material is what I would describe to be voluminous and no small detail is left out.

My physics exam wasn't hard. I barely crossed the finish line when time ran out. Didn't have time to check my answers. God I hate that last problem.

 

[CaseyLS]

Well not good, but not bad. I had 2 C's and 1 A. Oh I got an A in my history test, you know the that took away study time from my other tests for no reason.

 

[Mike Wladyka]

I see what you're saying. But a new problem arises. Professors are no longer truly evaluating what students know. They're simply just trying to fit into a statistic. Damn bell curves.....

i'm with ya, on those bell curves sucking...

 

[LDfan]

It's threads like this that make me happy I've already got my degree.
Reminds me of a girl I met that went to Stanford and started out with the typical pre-med classes. She said in her intro biology classes it was so competitive that she had a 94 average in the class and that was a 'B'. Her professor didn't stick to a numerical scale but used the old bell-curve to make the students compete with each other.

She later switched to political science.

Jeff

 

[Dome Vongvises]

It's been my experience that the best friends you make in class are the ones where you work together to get grades. Competition blows.