The Dark Knight (2008) (2 Viewers)

[Tim Glover]

I am literally hurting from laughing so hard Robert! That was GREATNESS!

 

[EricW]

i didn't really understand the whole point of Wayne ready to turn himself in because the Joker demanded it. did he really think the Joker would retire as well? also the thinking of the entire city. if you were a citizen of Gotham, would you have demanded Batman unmask too?

 

[Tim Glover]

Wayne was overwhelmed by the 'blood on his hands' so to speak & both he, Gordon, & Gotham were banking on Dent to fight the fight.

 

[EricW]

you didn't answer any of my questions though - but you're implying either Wayne believed the Joker would stop his spree, or that Dent would be able to stop him even if he didn't...

 

[Ben Osborne]

I don't think Bruce Wayne was really going to turn himself in, was he? I thought that Dent declaring that he was Batman was part of the plan devised by Batman, Gordon, and Dent to draw out the Joker.

 

[Edwin-S]

Wayne was starting to step forward and reveal himself, but Dent was too quick. Wayne then allowed Dent to take the fall. I don't think Wayne knew anything about the plan to capture The Joker. I think that plan was cooked up between Dent and Gordon. They just counted on Wayne/Batman being unable to resist getting involved.

 

[Adam Lenhardt]

I doubt he was thinking that far ahead. He felt so guilty he was willing to do anything to stop the bloodshed. He might also have still held out hope that the Joker would be good to his word.

 

[Brent M]

Well, for starters, that link doesn't work. Even if it did, though, I certainly wouldn't look to Salon.com for my movie reviews.

 

[Zack Gibbs]

I don't like to pick on those who don't like the film, but I did check out the reviewer on rottemtomatoes. He also gave Wall*E a poor review, but recommended Meet Dave. Take that as you will...

 

[Brent M]

Maybe that reviewer is actually Eddie Murphy.

 

[Nick Martin]

The only reviews I ever take seriously are DVD reviews, and not because of the film critic portion, but the technical aspects. That's something that everyone can benefit from and is much more fact-based. If there's a big discrepancy between a reviewer's A/V quality rating and a consumer's, that's usually due to equipment differences. In terms of trusting a reviewer because their tastes seem to match your own, again I don't put any stock in that at all. To each their own.

 

[JonZ]

Ive found that most bank hiests Ive seen in films require a bit of suspension of disbelief.

 

[rich_d]

That's fine. All comic book hero films require some suspension of disbelief.

Tell me that a superhero can fly ... no problem. But if you put said superhero in the mortal world, I expect that the mortal world to behave that way.

For example, tell me that the villain murders people by shooting a small caliber bullet through a old fashioned keyhole in a door, no problem. Tell me he enters the room goes to wash his hands and the water is instantly steaming ... BIG PROBLEM.

So, in the bank scene in TDK, tell me that the villain has a plan to risk his own life, get the money, kills his comrades and escape ... no problem.

Tell me that said plan has a f%%(( school bus both enter and leave a bank in broad daylight over a course of minutes AND that SOMEHOW the villain has correctly estimated how long his comrades will take to do their roles AND kill the thief next to them, leaving the bank to blend in with school buses going by the bank ... problem.

That school buses have a schedule to their movements worth discussing ... BIG PROBLEM.


But that's just my opinion, I could be wrong.

 

[Bryan Beckman]

The Joker's plots require both extensive planning and more than a little luck in terms of the timing. Sometimes he pulls them off (the bank heist, blowing up the warehouses where Harvey and Rachel were kept), sometimes he doesn't (blowing up the ferries). He says in the movie something along the lines of not having a plan or purpose, which a lot of people interpreted as a lie because of the incredible logistical coordination required for his unending setups. I think there's some of both - he's a plotter without a plan. He keeps winning because people wind up in the right (or wrong) place at the right time. He loses when people take control of the situation and the timing.

 

[Brent M]

All movies PERIOD require some suspension of disbelief and as far as I'm concerned there's nothing wrong with that. If I wanted "real life" I wouldn't choose to watch a movie, I'd just watch the news.

 

[rich_d]

You make some very good points.

The problem with the 'plotter without a plan' as I see it is two-fold:

1. You end up without a sustainable super villain. Who's going to work for the guy and for how long?

2. The Joker has a plan. He knows the changes in Gotham and the impact on the mobsters. His plan is one of anarchy, to undo what Harvey has achieved.

Therein lies the problem, a super villain that is all things is also nothing. Do they show the Joker as telling the truth or as a liar? Do they show him as a guy with a plan or someone that just 'does stuff?

To my thinking, the end result is that The Joker is more two-faced than two-face.

 

[DavidPla]

Exactly though..that's his appeal. He could be lying to you or telling you the truth. That is what has made The Joker the most enduring villain in comic book history. There is no logic. There is no motivation. He just is.. at any given moment.

 

[TonyD]

bingo.

i think that was intentional.
there are several sections that show he is a liar and will deceive anyone who is in contact with him.

 

[Will_B]

I didn't quite get what the conundrum about the two ferries was.

There were 2 ferries. One had convicts and one had the public. Each had a key that would blow the other ferry up. Obviously the one with the convicts should be blown up by the public. There's nothing to think about.

The only element that the people on each ferry would have had to consider was whether or not the Joker had lied about which key controled which ferry. I.e., if the public immediately turn the key which they think will blow up the convicts, their own ferry (the ferry with the public on it) may have blown up instead.

(Shades of "inconceivable!")

I kept thinking during the film that there must have originally been a different puzzle involving the ferries originally, in some earlier script, but it got changed somehow to this really silly, non-problematic one.

 

[DavidPla]

Taking a life is taking a life.. convict or no. What about the innocent guards and the captain of the ship? The conundrum is would you turn the key knowing you will still kill a bunch of people? Nobody knows that answer until we are put in such a position. Joker's point was to show that ANYBODY can be a killer.