Take that, iPad! (1 Viewer)

[Sam Posten]

No, they are expanding a sports network into a general purpose news networked designed for the web from the ground up. Kind of like a The Daily that doesn't suck.

 

[DaveF]

Ah. Maybe that will be interesting. I just saw that they'd joined an online sports-something.


Haven't tried The Daily yet, but I mean too. I expected the iPad to usher in a new day for magazines, but that's been a bust so far. Seriously: I have an iPad and money. Why won't anyone sell me a decent magazine app subscription?

 

[Sam Posten]

Details here:


http://joshuatopolsky.com/post/4327161218/this-is-my-next-project

 

[Palamino]

Originally Posted by Hanson Yoo

Android tablets from unusual sources:


http://micgadget.com/4733/the-badass-ipad-knockoff-thats-powered-by-android-2-1/


Actually, I wouldn't mind picking that one up. I saw it on sale for $238, not sure of the shipping, but it's still on pre-order.


Hurry up legitimate vendors!


The entire micgadget site is actually pretty funny. Well, maybe not so much if you're Steve Jobs. KIRF stands for, "keepin' it real fake".

I've been struggling with 3 iPads back on my back bench to see if I can convert them and get a VPN client to run.. I have no problem getting an RDP client to go.. but managing to authorize to the VPN is the hitch, and so far not a lot of great answers.

 

[Sam Posten]

Scoble (an idiot, I know) posits that the reason Android tablets will take off is because they can be funneled into places like schools and restaurants cheaply where nobody will spend the money to buy a 'real' ipad.


I'm not buying this, but there ya go:

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-android-will-gain-huge-tablet-marketshare-later-this-year-2011-6


Let's pile on a bunch of crap hardware to our kids so they know they aren't worth giving them the good stuff!


Le sigh

 

[DaveF]

Are you going to spend $500 on an iPad when a $350 one from Vizio will do? No way. Vizio wins. Apple doesn’t.

Are you going to spend $350 on a Vizio Pad when a $250 Nook Color will do? No way. B&N wins. Vizio doesn't. And that's why everyone is rocking their half-the-price-of-the-iPad Nook Color! Right? right?


But he's right: Cheap sells, ultimate. So far, no one's been able to sell a quality tablet for any less than Apple does. Once they do, they could take off. Never underestimate the number of people who care only about price, and nothing for quality. But it's not obvious that will happen in 2011.

 

[mattCR]

Really, the top use for a pad for many of my clients is remote desktop. And the Apple does that very well. But with the Acer Iconia turning up at $399, and sometimes less, especially those with bulk buys, I figure some will snap them up. It's not becuase it's better or worse then the ipad, it's because once you're in a remote desktop Kiosk mode, the rest of how it works doesn't really matter. And handing them out to sales reps is a lot cheaper then ipads.

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Caught a brief look at the 7" HTC Flyer and the Samsung G Tab 10.1 at BB the other day, and they do seem to be getting a bit better w/ these latest Android tablets. Took another brief look at the Xoom, and even it seemed a tad better this time around (vs my first encounter at a V store) -- maybe the V store one had some bad mojo installed/running on it that made it seem sluggish.


The Samsung G Tab 10.1 makes me want to rethink about choosing a 10"-er instead of something smaller -- definitely feels better in the hand than the Xoom (and the Acer Iconia). Of course, their upcoming G Tab 8.9 is really only ~1" smaller and might make the perfect compromise for me. Really wonder how battery life is on these (thinner) models.


But yeah, the overall UI experience still lags behind iOS mainly in terms of elegant simplicity and general intuitiveness. HTC's UI skin makes certain UI aspects simpler and more pleasant to use, but it also seems to add some inconsistencies to the mix as a result.


Also, that was my first encounter w/ Gingerbread, and it actually incorporates some UI aspects of Honeycomb, particularly on the Home screen.


Can't wait to see what Amazon is cooking up now...


_Man_

 

[Sam Posten]

Originally Posted by ManW_TheUncool

Me too, despite what you guys might think. If Amazon does a tablet right I will be there day 1 to test it out.

 

[Sam Posten]

Can even Amazon answer the question at hand? http://technologizer.com/2011/06/20/ipad-alternatives-2/ All your base...

 

[Hanson]

Hoenycomb has been a bust. Google is leaving Honeycomb and moving to the unified ICS OS. This will give them the flexibility to make one app for phone and tablet instead of having a separate tablet app space. Tegra2 has been a bust. The first dual core mobile chipset has exhibited markedly poor performance. There's a lot of hype and marketing but nothing about this chipset is blowing anyone away.


What we will see later this year is a tablet with ICS and, say, the Samsung Exynos chipset that will exhibit the kind of power that many of us envisioned Xoom would provide. That includes the muscle to playback Flash video smoothly (which will be a big differentiator) and more and more video streaming options including the ability to stream HD video straight off of media servers.

But I think the biggest draw to Android tablets will be the sheer number of Android phone owners who are used to the experience and don't consider an Android tablet to be the steep learning curve experience that it's been painted as. And the fact that the app you bought for your phone can be downloaded on your tablet at no extra cost will be a very attractive proposition. iPad owners have to rebuy their app library whereas Android owners will be able to replicate their apps on their tablets. With ICS, there won't be a "tablet version" you need to rebuy.


The bottom line is that there are more Android users than iPhone users. So the notion many Apple fans cling to of this great unwashed who prefer the elegant simplicity of iOS to the monstrous complexity of Android (which is quite overstated to being with) will shrink over time. Multiple form factors will give Android an edge as well.

Oh, and I don't know if Android will ever catch up to the sheer number of apps iOS has (I have a feeling Cupertino won't let that happen), I'd think that somewhere in the 200K app range, the law of diminishing returns starts kicking in. When it was 250K vs 50K there was a clear advantage, but 400K vs 200K is seems more like dick waving. The 200K difference aren't all killer apps. Not even close.


The bottom line is that the Android tablets don't have to get better. They just have to get good, and they're not there yet.

 

[Sam Posten]

Sounds like the same old excuses to me, Hanson! NEXT YEAR will be the year for Linux on the desktop, this time we swear its true!

 

[DaveF]

Originally Posted by Hanson Yoo


And the fact that the app you bought for your phone can be downloaded on your tablet at no extra cost will be a very attractive proposition. iPad owners have to rebuy their app library whereas Android owners will be able to replicate their apps on their tablets. With ICS, there won't be a "tablet version" you need to rebuy.

Huh? Universal apps.

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/keynote/id361285480?mt=8


It's up to the developer. You're telling me that, ironically, Google is forcing developers to provide "universal" apps, regardless of whether it's good business or not?

 

[Hanson]

Originally Posted by Sam Posten

Sounds like the same old excuses to me, Hanson! NEXT YEAR will be the year for Linux on the desktop, this time we swear its true!

What a bizarre comeback Sam, considering Android has overtaken iOS in the smartphone market in a very short amount of time. I'm not sure exactly what point you are trying to make. Linux is a germane to this situation as Newton.


Dave, the ability to load apps across devices on the same gmail account is inherent to Android app management and not a developer opt in or out.

 

[DaveF]

Curious. I don't quite understand how that will work. Will be interesting to see the next iteration.

 

[Sam Posten]

That does seem like an odd way to handle things. So for example, Popcap can't make a different tablet optimized PvZ and market it differently if they wanted to? If they first put out a phone optimized version and later want to make a tablet one they are forced to make it universal only? That sucks. I like the fact that iOS developers have the freedom to handle it whichever way makes sense to them from a size and also profit, perspective. Hanson, my 'taunt' really comes down to this: -Honeycomb was supposed to be the bees knees -Flash was supposed to be 100% awesome across all Android devices by now -Tegra2 was supposed to knock it out of the park. Clearly #2 is not the case. If #1 and #3 aren't either (I've not had the chance to play with them personally) then we are stuck with the same mentality of 'Push it out now even if it's not 100% ready for primetime and see what sticks' instead of waiting until a compelling end to end user central experience can be created. And that's been the story of Linux since the beginning and clearly it infects Android too. 'Patch early and often' loses to 'Craft well and release extraordinary polished creations' in my world but I understand thats not how everyone sees it. Again I grant you there may be a landslide more android devices on the market than iOS ones, you can debate those numbers all day long and I really don't care about marketshare. But what I question is if those users are genuinely happy or even satisfied with them. Does anyone who isn't a zealot or a hardcore geek/developer truly LOVE the platform? You can fill the marketplace with low rent alternatives that appeal to people who don't know any better or who want something made by 'Anyone but Apple', but that will only get you so far IMO...

 

[ManW_TheUncool]

Originally Posted by Sam Posten

That does seem like an odd way to handle things. So for example, Popcap can't make a different tablet optimized PvZ and market it differently if they wanted to? If they first put out a phone optimized version and later want to make a tablet one they are forced to make it universal only? That sucks. I like the fact that iOS developers have the freedom to handle it whichever way makes sense to them from a size and also profit, perspective.

But isn't it better to have real, meaningful differentiation than artificially produced ones (based solely on device diff)? If a particular app could really benefit from different device-dependent versions, then people will buy them accordingly anyway, no?


And in any case, if developers really want the differentiation, they can always design/develop their apps accordingly.


Although they don't generally explicitly prevent you from installing/running any app version on any device (other than special cases like B&N's NC), that doesn't mean any app version will actually run or run well on any device. And I don't believe developers are forced to make their apps compatible w/ every version of Android out there.


In practice, it probably works out to be more or less the same as in the iOS world, except there's more guesswork w/ Android and less w/ iOS.


_Man_

 

[Hanson]

Sam,you seem to hew to the Apple Zombie line that Android is terrible and unfinished, but are simply being bought out of inertia. But there are Blackberries out there. There are WP7 phones now. And yet the growth of Android continues unabated. The iPhone is on Verizon, yet they still seem to sell Android phones in large numbers. You seem to think only techies and Apple haters love Android phones. Yet my sister, her husband, and his sister all have Android phones and love them. So that's three off the bat that counter your argument. They aren't the exception, I'm sure. My sister,btw, owned the iPad2 before her Epic, so it's not a matter of being oblivious to iOS.

 

[Ken Chan]

Originally Posted by Hanson Yoo . I don't necessarily put a lot of stock in this one report, but I try not to give so much weight to the quarter-to-quarter horse race in general.

 

[Sam Posten]

Sam,you seem to hew to the Apple Zombie line that Android is terrible and unfinished, but are simply being bought out of inertia. But there are Blackberries out there. There are WP7 phones now. And yet the growth of Android continues unabated. The iPhone is on Verizon, yet they still seem to sell Android phones in large numbers. You seem to think only techies and Apple haters love Android phones. Yet my sister, her husband, and his sister all have Android phones and love them. So that's three off the bat that counter your argument. They aren't the exception, I'm sure. My sister,btw, owned the iPad2 before her Epic, so it's not a matter of being oblivious to iOS.

I don't know a single non-engineer except for Verizon employees who own an android device. Of your acquaintances and family who do: How many purchased when iPhone was not on their carrier of choice? How many of them paid more than $50 to get it after their "new every two" discount? How many went into the store specifically looking for an Android device or settled for it because of economic or availability reasons? All I can tell you is that nobody I know is excited about Android, and those that do have an Android phone got it for one of the following reasons: -Wanted mobile web access and iPhone was not available at the time they had to purchase, was too expensive for them, or they knew that iPhone 4 on Verizon was already halfway through it's lifespan and they wanted to wait for iPhone 5/LTE. -Wanted LTE as soon as possible to lock into unlimited data before tiering begins (I know 3 engineers who bought Thunderbolts on day 1 for this reason) -It was cheap or free at their "New Every Two" date and they got talked into a smart phone at a near zero price and didn't mind the data charges because it would give mobile web And of the people I've talked to who do own Androids, the overwhelming response to it has been "It's ok but not really what I wanted" and a litany of issues, especially battery life in the early days. Fanboy or not that's my experience so far.