SVS blues

Discussion in 'Speakers' started by John Menoni, Sep 1, 2005.

  1. John Menoni

    John Menoni Stunt Coordinator

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    I was so excited to see what the SVS would sound like in my room. I currently have an M&K 350 sub. It is an awesome sub but it just doesn't have the muscle of the SVS PB 12 plus 2 that I was anticipating buying. I am really getting alot done and I started taking measurements. There isn't that many places that the sub can go in my room. It is a problem room to say the least. Still I made the most of it and it should still be pretty cool. I was so angry to find that the SVS would actually cover the screen material on my screen. There is no way that I can use this sub in the front of my room. I looked for an alternate place and there really is no other place that really seems feasable. The only place would be between the back and front seating area. I'm just afraid that this area is too close to the listener and the bass wouldn't have a chance to develop. Then I thought that I would build the sub into the stand that I need to put my projector on. That is no good either because the SVS is too high for that. The only other option would be to lay the SVS on it's side. I know that isn't the way the sub is meant to be so I figure it must effect the sound in some negative way. Any other ideas would be appreciated. I have a diagram of my room but I can't figure how to get it on here. Basically my room has very very low ceilings at 6 1/2 feet and go even lower in some places because of overhead pipes. The room is 26 ft long but only 79 inces wide in the narrowest part of the seating area. The whole room is a hard C shaped room so the HT is in the long part of the hard C. I guess I will just have to go to war with the M&K.
     
  2. MikeyWeitz

    MikeyWeitz Supporting Actor

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    So get 1 or 2 + cylinders.

    My 16-46pc+ sits in the 2.5-3' between mys ectional and rear wall and sounds fine there. Like the way it shakes my sectional :)
     
  3. AlanZ

    AlanZ Screenwriter

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    An SVS in a less-than-ideal location is still better than any other sub in the same price range in an ideal location. [​IMG]
     
  4. SteveCallas

    SteveCallas Second Unit

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    Just stick it next your couch or seats and it can double as an end table. I hear the rugged black exterior won't leave cup or can rings, so no coaster needed.
     
  5. John Menoni

    John Menoni Stunt Coordinator

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    Mike, the cylinders are taller than the box subs so there no good. Steve, I looked all over the room. The rear loveseat is next to the wall on one side and the gear rack is next to it on the other side. There is no where to put it in the main seating area that doesn't block the sound from the front speakers. The other space is occupied or obtrusive. I wonder what it would look like if I put the sub on it's side. This way it would look very wide and would be very low.
     
  6. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    This is actually a good spot.

    One way to find the best place for a sub is the following: put the sub *at* your listening position. Then crawl around the room listening for the best combination of output and smoothness. Then you put the sub there. But, if you *can* put it as close as you can to your listening position, you can actually eliminate/reduce a lot of problems with room nodes and such. You're getting direct sound right from the sub.
     
  7. rob-h

    rob-h Second Unit

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    I will be grabbing one of these subs as well. It was 2 inches into my screen as well. SVS told me that it will work great with the base removed and turned on its side so the ports point up. They said a large portion of thier customers do this.
     
  8. John S

    John S Producer

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    The sub should be ok close to the listening position.


    I have used the sub as an end table tons of times, you can move about the room without much difference in sub performance at all. You can see it on the meter some, but rarely can I detect it with my ears.
     
  9. Brian L

    Brian L Cinematographer

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    I am going to go out on a limb and call partial BS on this one.[​IMG]

    I have read this suggestion for years, and on the face of it, it sounds great, but what does "the best combination of output and smoothness" sound like?

    A hump at 50 hertz may sound good with certain music, but what if there is also a dip at 40 hertz? Do you do this test with music? Do you do it with band limited pink noise?

    Most of us that have obsessed over sub placement and crossover issues would not dream of finalizing a set-up by ear. Yet, thats just what this calls for.

    So, here's my 0.02 on the subject. Put the sub in your listening chair, and then take some measurements and graph out the response at all possible sub locations. Then you can make your choice based on the objective data, rather than what you "think" may sound good.

    Putting that minor rant aside, I am definitely down with the idea of nearfield sub placement. Dr. Hsu lists that in some of the paper work I got with my 1225, and I'll be damned but the best measured and subjective sound I ever had was with the sub behind my couch.

    You have to mind your crossover settings to avoid localization, but man, when there is something with serious low end (Sky Captain is my current fave), the couch quite literally shakes.

    Brian
     
  10. MikeLi

    MikeLi Supporting Actor

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    People can say all they want about the Rat. Shack calibrating meter but I have run into the same thing with the sub. I think I am much better at earing in in the place I want to place it. Plus they have so much power that alot of that you can overcome and still get a great response. Try doing that with most other subs....Won't happen.,
     
  11. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    Ahh, but how many of us use test tones as a starting point, but set the final volume of the sub by ear? And how many of us tweak the sub's volume differently for music and movie sources? By ear? [​IMG]
     
  12. John Menoni

    John Menoni Stunt Coordinator

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    I think I might try SVS Ron's idea and put the sub on it's side so the actual drivers are facing the seating area. I could take the bottom plate off the unit and the 2 drivers would be visable from the seating area. We will see.
     
  13. Brian L

    Brian L Cinematographer

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    I probably could have worded my mini-rant better....

    I am good with the theory of swapping the sub with the listening chair, its the evaluation by ear I still have a gripe with. I just do not believe you can get it right by ear. You may get it better than it was, but I just don't think you will get it right w/o a rudimentary set of measurements with an SPL meter. IMHO, of course.

    In my recent attempt to get my 2CH + Sub rig set-up properly, I went back and forth with crossovers settings, sub placement, blah, blah, blah. I would find a combination that sounded great with some recordings, then I would put in a disc that sounded either anemic or bloated.

    I was hell bent to do this rig by ear, but in the end, I conceded defeat, and pulled out the meter and test tones. That led me out of the woods, and let me see what my speakers and room were really doing in the low end.

    The end result was a crossover higher than I thought I would need, but a very smooth response from 100 Hz on down (well, with a dollop of BFD thrown in there too, but thats a subject for another day).

    I may had stumbled upon that by trial and error, but had I started with measurements first, I would have saved my self a month of dicking with the system (although in true hi-fi Geek fashion, I take a perverse sort of pleasure from monkeying with my system!).

    And I absolutely do set the overall volume by ear, and absolutely do tweak the level between recordings, but thats AFTER working out the best placement and crossover for my room.

    Brian
     
  14. MikeLi

    MikeLi Supporting Actor

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    I totally agree.. And that is always my starting point is the meter but I always end up earing it in the end from there and have different settings by about 5 db for HT and Music settings... What I meant to say was for the most part an ear tweeked SVS is usually better than anything else out there for the price... Same on room placement but that is much more important.
     

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