Sub Help

Discussion in 'Speakers & Subwoofers' started by Tyler_R, May 10, 2005.

  1. Tyler_R

    Tyler_R Extra

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    My current setup is as follows:

    Fronts- JBL S312
    Center- JBL S-Center
    Rears- JBL S310
    Receiver- HK AVR-510

    I do not currently have a sub, and I am wondering if one would be beneficial. Would there be too much bass with the 310’s as rears along with a subs? If you think a sub would be beneficial what do you think would work best with my current system?


    Thanks
     
  2. John S

    John S Producer

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    Always get the meanest sub you can afford.

    I'm still old school partial to Velodyne. I think the DLS5000R would certainly rock your world. I'm not keen on single 12" driver solutions these days, so go for a dual 12" or a 15" or larger solution.

    You would still want to set the cross over on your AVR to like 60 and set your towers to small though for best performance in my opinion. 60hz is pretty low, lots of bass still to use those capabilities of your nice fronts and rears.
     
  3. Tyler_R

    Tyler_R Extra

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    What are some general thoughts about the JBL S-120PII. They have been recently been discounted, and can be found in the $300-$400 range.
     
  4. MikeLi

    MikeLi Supporting Actor

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    I would not do a JBL sub. Do the Velo, SVS or HSU... Those are real subs. Sorry and not trying to be snobby or start a war here but it is not in the same league as the above.
     
  5. John S

    John S Producer

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    Maybe try the JBL if you get a most screaming deal imaginable on it.

    But there is a source for that Velo at $577 and I am confident, that SVS, HSU or Velodyne would be better.


    I'm still down on single 12" driver subs these days though in general, especially taken into account your what I would call very robust mains. You will have to drive any given sub pretty hard to keep up.
     
  6. MikeLi

    MikeLi Supporting Actor

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    A lot depends on your room and such. I went from dual NHT 12" that had plenty of power to a single SVS (now called the PB12/+2 Ultra) It was a PB2+ and I upgraded the drivers. It handles my good sized family/HT room very well with 16" vaulted ceilings and the best part that the NHT's could not do is what I call tacticle presence or in other words feeling the slam or air move during those short hard bursts that most subs go for loudness instead of pushing air and letting you feel it as well. My duals I compaired them for about 5 minutes back and forth on a movie and thats all it took me to know this SVS box, even though its big was the one. Sorry if this doesn't sound right I was up all night and just hitting the sack for a nap. See ya all.
    MikeL
     
  7. Chris Huber

    Chris Huber Second Unit

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    Great speakers:

    I've got the S312IIs up front, S-CenterII for center, E10s on side surround, and N24IIs for the rear. I am running a 250 Watt JBL PB12. That coupled with the main 12s sound pretty good.

    I would suggest getting an SVS though.
     
  8. John S

    John S Producer

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    Chris Huber, In other words.. Yes, a lesser sub works. But a truly meaner sub would be significantly more optimal?

    That is what I take from the "I would suggest getting an SVS though"....

    That is really great input for him, over my stark suggestion of going with the meanest sub you can afford.

    I still say, always get the meanest sub you can afford!! [​IMG] Just seems simpler that way. [​IMG]
     
  9. Eric C D

    Eric C D Second Unit

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    I have to agree there, along with the general statements on brand names. Don't worry about matching the woof to your speaker brand - they are using different frequencies. Speaking of which, even though you have big speakers, realize you'll set the receiver to treat them as "small" and send those freqs to a powered sub. It will ease the job your receiver amps have to do and make everything sound cleaner.

    The only other thing I haven't seen stated is that there is a minimum acceptable SPL "meanness" that is room-size dependent. MikeLi (hi Mike!) alluded to it with his system. If you have a small room, you can get very good 10" subs. If you have a medium room, probably a good 12 will do. If you have a large room, start thinking 15" or dual drivers.

    Also, determine how much Low Frequency "meanness" that you want - what kind frequencies are you trying to dig out. [​IMG]

    And I always suggest looking for either a sub with some parametric equalization, or getting separate equalization. It is very few of us who have rooms with no LF reinforcement that causes subs to be one-noted. IMO, fixing that is as much improvement as just getting the sub in the first place.

    Back to one of your original questions: "do we think a sub would be beneficial?" That's easy: $^&@! yeah! [​IMG]

    enjoy,
     
  10. Gralen

    Gralen Stunt Coordinator

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    I have a velo and my best friend has a JBL sub with his all JBL system. I take my sub vs his but use your ears. They are your best source of info.As for wether a sub is good I will finally get my sub back again and I miss it
     
  11. Tyler_R

    Tyler_R Extra

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    Thanks for all the responses so far.

    I have looked into the SVS subs, but the problem is that I wanted to stay around $400. This leaves me with the option of purchasing the SVS PB10-ISD at $429. On the other hand I have available for purchase the JBL S120PII for $285. The JBL has the 12" woofer @ 400 watts and is $144 less. Do you think the SVS with 300 watts and a 10" woofer outperform the JBL by $144?

    It seems as though people talk down JBL subs, are there any problems with them, or are they just not up to par with SVS, HSU, and Velodyne?

    Thanks
     
  12. Chris Huber

    Chris Huber Second Unit

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    Well, JBL subs are pretty good subs themselves. I've got the PB-12 adn am lucky it's still around. They are known for amps going out. I must have got a revision...

    Anyway, my 250 watt PB-12 puts out pretty clean and powerful sound. I'd like to hear the 400 watt version... If you can get it for 285, thats a pretty good price.

    I know that SVS subs will play about 10-15 hz lower then any JBL sub. I bet that means quite a bit (haven't heard one). I'd try and get a 20-39PCi if you can afford it... Probably a good step up from the SVS PB-10.

    If not, I wonder what sub would sound best between the SVS PB-10 and the JBLS120II?
     
  13. Carl P

    Carl P Extra

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    There is nothing in the mass market (sub wise) that will compete dollar for dollar with SVS period. If you've owned a sub before, you won't believe how much better an SVS is at their price point than what you're used to. If you've never owned a sub before, you'll be absolutely amazed. Save up and get the SVS, they're that good. (no, I don't work for them!)
     
  14. John S

    John S Producer

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    Not that I want to bust your budget or anything....

    But if I were ordering a sub right now. I'd go for this deal right here.

    http://www.aboutgizmos.com/vedl5.html


    The deal seems legit, or at least I read of a few people that got it from this place and were happy.
     
  15. Eric C D

    Eric C D Second Unit

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    Can't speak for that sub you're talking about, and it's been too long since I've had the chance to hear what some of the traditional audio companies are doing in response to the Hsus and SVSs - I certainly hope that they are able to do it well.

    Tell you what I'd do if it was I was shopping for a sub in a store now. I'd take a frequency sweep disk and a SPL meter. Two things: first, I would not trust most stores to level balance the sub to the other speakers. But more importantly, I'd want to hear and measure the LF sweep myself. Until you have lots of experience (certainly more than me), you can't really tell how well the sub is performing down low - it's really easy to think a loud 40-hz output is "good" bass.

    And if you were able to save $144, I'd recommend spending it on equalization. The first time you run a LF sweep in your house, you'll realize how bad it is. And when you finally correct for it (which usually allows you to turn up the sub even more), your jaw will be dropped all over again.

    enjoy,
     
  16. John S

    John S Producer

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    That is one of the coolest things about the Velo.. Includes modicum of equaliziation, even automatically performs it too. Just more FYI than anything else.

    That is a great price on the JBL, which certainly can even things out some on which is best performance -vs- price.

    But on here, the overwhelming resonse is always going to be on the side of performance and not price.

    Almost our home theater and audio civic duty you know.


    [​IMG]
     
  17. Victor Ferguson

    Victor Ferguson Stunt Coordinator

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    I think a good option would be a diy sub. There are lots of kits available and you can even get them precut. Seems value/performance of diy's is a no brainer.
     
  18. Joe Mihok

    Joe Mihok Second Unit

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    I haven't owned an SVS/HSU/Velo ... but I did build my own sub and it tears apart my house. I also saved alot of $$$. The entire cost was around $400 CND. I would DEFINATLEY purchase a BFD (equalizer). So keep into account the funds for that ($150 CND).

    This is my current frequency chart for my new house (just moved in 2 months ago):

    [​IMG]

    As you can see, the sub is very strong and flat from 16hz all the way to 70hz (except for the bump at 25hz, but I like it [​IMG]). This is all because of the equalizer and it sounds unreal. If I were you (and didn't want to build your own sub), I would save your money and buy the SVS (based on many great user reviews) and then later on buy a BFD. You will not regret having a flat frequency response with clean output [​IMG]. I know you are thinking to yourself (just like I did) that a good sub can't sound THAT much better than a mediocre one .... but trust me, you have NO IDEA. [​IMG]

    good luck!
     
  19. Tyler_R

    Tyler_R Extra

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    Does anyone know where I could audition an SVS in the Kansas City area?

    Thanks
     
  20. Eric C D

    Eric C D Second Unit

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    I'd suggest starting a new thread with that in the title.
     

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