Star Wars: The Last Jedi discussion thread(Warning: Spoilers!)

Chris Will

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I think this backlash proves one thing, as much as some fans say they want new things, they really just want more of the same. Some one even posted earlier here that TLJ goes against established patterns for the series. That's actually way I love it so much. TLJ genuinely surprised and shocked me more than any other movie in the series sense TESB.

I'll never understand this need for backstory and for everything to have an answer these days. IMO, the PT ruins some of the fun of the OT by spelling everything out. After ANH, did we really need to know how Vader came to power? Obi-wan said he was "seduced by the darkside". Why can't that be enough, it was enough for me when I was a kid? Plus, what I imagined as a kid, of Anakin Skywalker fighting along side of Obi-wan in the Clone Wars, was far more exciting and fun than what Lucas ended up putting on the screen.

Rey's parents was always going to upset a group of fans depending on which theory you decided to support. I never liked the idea of her being a Skywalker or a Solo so, being a nobody was the perfect answer in my book. It makes her character feel more real. JJ could always come back and change this in IX and, honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if he did.

The biggest complaints I see from people are about TFA mysteries not being answered in a way they wanted. Maybe JJ just needs to stop using his mystery box belief in everything he makes.
 

Jake Lipson

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JJ could always come back and change this in IX and, honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if he did.
Chris, I agree with pretty much everything you said in your above pot.

As far as him changing Rey's parentage, let's remember that J.J. is a producer on The Last Jedi. It was Rian's choice to write what he wrote, but Abrams was at least peripherally involved in his producing capacity, so I really don't think he will change it. I hope not.

I'm also positive Abrams had also seen a cut of The Last Jedi when he agreed to come back for Episode IX. If he was unhappy with how Johnson left things, he likely wouldn't have agreed to return. I would be very surprised if he walks back what Johnson developed.
 
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Chris Will

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And as a dad to young daughters, it is awesome to watch them put themselves into Rey's shoes, just as I did with Luke Skywalker a generation ago.
You hit the nail on the head here and I was thinking about the same thing earlier. I have a 10 year old daughter who I have turned into a massive SW fan. She loves it all, even the PT, that I find boring but, she thinks these last 2 movies (TFA, TLJ) are the best in the series. It's because of Rey, she loves Rey and has the same connection to her that I had with Luke and Han. It has been so much fun experiencing this films with her. We had a blast in TLJ whispering things to each other, "did you see that", "OMG Yoda!", "Rey's got Kylo's saber!" Experiencing these through her has really brought me back to my childhood like no other movie has ever done.
 

Tim Gerdes

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Well agree to disagree. Rian could have expanded and flesh out that character any way he wished. He chose not to. That’s his weakness,not JJ’s.
I didn't see it as a weakness at all though. I liked the efficiency with which Johnson removed Snoke from the story, so the third film can concentrate on Kylo Ren as a villain in his own right. In this sense he was more a plot device than a character, which is why his lack of backstory didn't really trouble me, apart from the issues I mentioned earlier.
 

dpippel

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I think this backlash proves one thing, as much as some fans say they want new things, they really just want more of the same. Some one even posted earlier here that TLJ goes against established patterns for the series. That's actually way I love it so much. TLJ genuinely surprised and shocked me more than any other movie in the series sense TESB.

I'll never understand this need for backstory and for everything to have an answer these days. IMO, the PT ruins some of the fun of the OT by spelling everything out. After ANH, did we really need to know how Vader came to power? Obi-wan said he was "seduced by the darkside". Why can't that be enough, it was enough for me when I was a kid? Plus, what I imagined as a kid, of Anakin Skywalker fighting along side of Obi-wan in the Clone Wars, was far more exciting and fun than what Lucas ended up putting on the screen.

Rey's parents was always going to upset a group of fans depending on which theory you decided to support. I never liked the idea of her being a Skywalker or a Solo so, being a nobody was the perfect answer in my book. It makes her character feel more real. JJ could always come back and change this in IX and, honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if he did.

The biggest complaints I see from people are about TFA mysteries not being answered in a way they wanted. Maybe JJ just needs to stop using his mystery box belief in everything he makes.
I agree with most of this too Chris. Backstory, if not done deftly and carefully, can really backfire. That happened with Vader in the prequels for me. The way Anakin's story arc was handled absolutely diminished the power that Vader once held in my mind. The need to spoon-feed the audience with explanations for everything has gotten way out of hand, and I for one am glad Johnson didn't go down the Midi-chlorian road. In fact, I am SO grateful that they haven't been mentioned at all in the new trilogy!
 
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Simon Massey

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The backlash is ridiculous to be honest and I can’t help feeling some of it is being manufactured by the media.

That the film took some chances it should be applauded for and it’s going to give the franchise some much needed breathing room.

Luke Skywalker remains my favourite character from ANY film and I was really worried going in that this film was going to tarnish that. The fanboy in me was wanting Luke to have his Jedi moment and show what he is capable of etc but really what Johnson managed was to actually find some way of developing his character in a meaningful way and really what more could you hope for ? Otherwise it’s essentially a glorified repeat of Luke/Yoda from Empire and a final battle like ROTJ. That final scene with Luke was way more in keeping with his character than anything I could have dreamed up. I get it might not have worked for everyone like it did for me, but at least the story came from a desire to actually do something interesting with Luke than just have him pop up and show off.

And the Rey parentage thing is the best thing that could have happened. I’ve lost count of how many people have complained about all the coincidences that occur - 3PO built by Anakin etc - and finally a hero turns up within no connection and everyone’s upset ?? Strange.

If there is something Johnson definitely wanted to come through here it’s that the Force is not just for Skywalkers.
 
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Tino

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I didn't see it as a weakness at all though. I liked the efficiency with which Johnson removed Snoke from the story, so the third film can concentrate on Kylo Ren as a villain in his own right. In this sense he was more a plot device than a character, which is why his lack of backstory didn't really trouble me, apart from the issues I mentioned earlier.
Hey. I like what Johnson did with Snoke. I was referring to you blaming JJ and TFA for issues with this film. My weakness comment only refers to those with issues that are not JJ’s fault. This film is 100% Rians. He deserves all the praise and whatever criticism it receives. Not JJ.
 
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Jake Lipson

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What does it say about box office reporting today that a film that grossed "only" $220 million in a single weekend is perceived to be a victim of "backlash"?
Exactly. The Last Jedi opening was only off -11% from The Force Awakens record. Considering that The Force Awakens had 32 years of anticipation and a cultural event status that is clearly unrepeatable, I would say that is an amazing result, and I'm sure Disney is thrilled.
 
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Simon Massey

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Hell, to me, Luke had his Jedi moment in this film! What he did at the end of the film was very impressive to me.
Absolutely but I think a lot were expecting him to fight the whole First Order with a laser sword :) Even I smiled initially when he walked out to face off against them thinking...the First Order are in trouble now!! :) even though logically and from a story point of view it would have been ridiculous
 

Simon Massey

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I did notice a deleted scene from the teaser - there is a moment Rey seems to be running on the island in the dark with the lightsaber in her hand - don’t remember seeing that shot in the film.
 

Jake Lipson

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Rian Johnson has said in an interview that there will be about 20 minutes of deleted scenes available on the Blu-ray as part of its bonus features. I don't have a link handy right now but I know I read that somewhere recently.
 

Robert Crawford

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Absolutely but I think a lot were expecting him to fight the whole First Order with a laser sword :) Even I smiled initially when he walked out to face off against them thinking...the First Order are in trouble now!! :) even though logically and from a story point of view it would have been ridiculous
God, I loved that moment when Luke brushed off his robe after that barrage of cannon fire from the First Order. It got the most audience reaction than any other scene in the movie.
 

Josh Steinberg

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I believe you that Johnson said that now, but I think in practice when the final disc comes out, it'll be a lot less. I can't tell you how many times in the past five years or so, a new Marvel movie has come out and the director comments that there are tons of deleted scenes and/or an extended cut coming on the disc, and then it never happens - just a couple minutes of throwaway scenes that obviously should have been cut out and never an extended cut.
 
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dpippel

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God, I loved that moment when Luke brushed off his robe after that barrage of cannon fire from the First Order. It got the most audience reaction than any other scene in the movie.
That was very awesome Robert! It reminded me a bit of a scene in The Incredibles, when Bob comes home after a night of sneaking in some crime-fighting with Lucius. Helen picks a piece of dust off of his shoulder and suspiciously asks, "Is this *rubble*?" Fantastic stuff.
 

benbess

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A really good interview with Rian Johnson about the "backlash" and about why he made the choices he did:

http://www.businessinsider.fr/us/st...iew-about-the-last-jedi-fan-backlash-2017-12/
Good interview. I like this quote....

Guerrasio: Give me the one scene/shot in "The Last Jedi" that, regardless of how many times you've seen it, you are pretty impressed that you pulled it off.

Johnson: [Laughs.] It was an early image that I had. I really love that slow-motion shot of Kylo and Rey back-to-back with the guards coming from all the sides in Snoke's chambers. And look, there were a lot of people whose work went into it to design the space and the guards, the stunt work, but that was a moment that I had just always held dear to me, and it's one of those very rare things where the realization of it on screen I just feel like, "Ah, we got it!" It makes me happy.
 

Jake Lipson

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I believe you that Johnson said that now, but I think in practice when the final disc comes out, it'll be a lot less.
Josh, I suppose it would be more accurate to say that Johnson has made 20 minutes of deleted scenes available to Disney for use on the Blu-ray.

Of course, it is ultimately Disney's call how much of that they will put out.

Given their recent abandonment of 3D, I wonder if they will do what they did with Force Awakens and delay the 3D release, with additional supplements, until later. If they plan to do double dips, that would certainly indicate that some extras will be withheld for future releases. If they're going to put the 3D edition out as a retailer exclusive a la Rogue One, or not put it out at all, and don't have plans to double dip, then the chances seem more likely that we'll just see everything in April.

On the other hand, the novelization of The Last Jedi comes out in March, and was written based off of the film script before there was a final cut. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the 20 minutes of deleted scenes actually appear in novelized form in that book, whether or not the actual footage turns up with the Blu-ray release. https://www.amazon.com/Last-Jedi-St...02&sr=1-1&keywords=the+last+jedi+novelization
 
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