Star Wars: The Last Jedi discussion thread(Warning: Spoilers!)

dpippel

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I really don't get all of the negative focus on the lack of backstory for Snoke. As has been pointed out we had ZERO backstory for Palpatine in the OT, which didn't seem to bother anyone at all. That being said, I would have rather seen Johnson spend the time he wasted (IMO) on Cantonica and the Code Breaker sidestory fleshing Snoke out a bit. Not a dealbreaker for me at all however, and I thought that the Ren/Snoke/Rey scene played out extremely well. I *like* what Johnson did with these three characters in TLJ.
 
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Sam Favate

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The problem with there being no backstory to Snoke is this: The character was placed into an already existing saga with no explanation of who he was or where he came from, or if he related to anyone we'd seen in the previous 6 episodes. After Episode 7, there was a lot of speculation as to who he was and an implicit promise to the moviegoer that we'd find out. Snoke died with no explanation of who he was, and that's a failure.

Palpatine, by contrast, was only spoken about in the first movie, teased in the second and we didn't really meet him until the third. He was simply "emperor" - filling a generic role in what we already understood was an imperial structure. (His conniving backstory was teased by Lucas - in the novel adaptation perhaps? - as being a senator who grabbed power, and that was fulfilled by the prequel trilogy.)
 
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benbess

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Just got back from watching The Last Jedi for the second time in 3D. I highly recommend the 3D experience. In any case, as a movie I loved it even more the second time. It now ties with Empire for 1st place in my personal rankings of Star Wars movies....

1. The Last Jedi/The Empire Strikes Back (tie)
2. A New Hope
3. Rogue One
4. Return of the Jedi
5. The Force Awakens
6. The Phantom Menace
7. Revenge of the Sith
8. Attack of the Clones

My overall rating on The Last Jedi after the second viewing is now an "A+". Visually spectacular. And it's also emotionally, philosophically, and politically rich and sophisticated. If you'd told me a week ago I'd rate this movie as highly as Empire, I would have said you were insane.
 
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Brett_B

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The problem with there being no backstory to Snoke is this: The character was placed into an already existing saga with no explanation of who he was or where he came from, or if he related to anyone we'd seen in the previous 6 episodes. After Episode 7, there was a lot of speculation as to who he was and an implicit promise to the moviegoer that we'd find out. Snoke died with no explanation of who he was, and that's a failure.

Palpatine, by contrast, was only spoken about in the first movie, teased in the second and we didn't really meet him until the third. He was simply "emperor" - filling a generic role in what we already understood was an imperial structure. (His conniving backstory was teased by Lucas - in the novel adaptation perhaps? - as being a senator who grabbed power, and that was fulfilled by the prequel trilogy.)
After seeing TFA, I guess I was curious as to how the First Order came to be since the Empire was destroyed, and that Snoke was this new leader.

I guess the general consensus is, like Rey, that he came from nobody. I guess, to compare with the prequel trilogy, both Snoke and Rey were probably born with an even higher medichlorian count than Anakin Skywalker since Anakin had to be taught how to use the force instead of "just knowing".

That definitely makes sense in the Skywalker saga. Now I am at peace.
 
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Colin Jacobson

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I really don't get all of the negative focus on the lack of backstory for Snoke. As has been pointed out we had ZERO backstory for Palpatine in the OT, which didn't seem to bother anyone at all. That being said, I would have rather seen Johnson spend the time he wasted (IMO) on Cantonica and the Code Breaker sidestory fleshing Snoke out a bit. Not a dealbreaker for me at all however, and I thought that the Ren/Snoke/Rey scene played out extremely well. I *like* what Johnson did with these three characters in TLJ.
I agree that Snoke's backstory is largely irrelevant. He's a big, bad dude - who cares how he got there?

He's really just a plot device anyway...
 

Mikael Soderholm

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Rey turned out to be "a nobody."
Brilliant post that sums up my feelings, mostly, but I still don't believe Rey was a nobody, mostly because of her connection to Kylo, and her mastery of the force, and the vision she had in TFA. There has to be something more, and I am sure we will see that in the next episode.
Am I the only one doubting what was said in this film? Has there ever been a red herring before in a Star Wars movie?
The owls are not what they seem, and neither are the Jedi.
 
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dpippel

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The problem with there being no backstory to Snoke is this: The character was placed into an already existing saga with no explanation of who he was or where he came from, or if he related to anyone we'd seen in the previous 6 episodes. After Episode 7, there was a lot of speculation as to who he was and an implicit promise to the moviegoer that we'd find out. Snoke died with no explanation of who he was, and that's a failure
I still don't see a problem here Sam, so we'll just have to agree to disagree, and what implicit promise are you talking about? There was nothing in TFA that implied there would be an explanation of who Snoke was in a subsequent film. I think most people who are upset feel let down because next to the identity of Rey's parents, Snoke's details were what fans spent so much time trying to figure out. I think that in IX we'll get some more information on the guy.
 

Chris Will

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Well, if I read things right, Disney shot down the prospect of a Knights of the Old Republic" trilogy which leads me to believe they are going forward in time. And I doubt they are going to go super off the reservation. It could be a time jump of hundreds of years which means no Rey, Finn, Poe, Kylo etc. but possibly still the First Order.
Disney didn't shoot down anything regarding KOTOR as far as I've read, Johnson just wants to go in another direction. Here is his quote:
Oh, [fans] love Knights of the Old Republic. I played that game when it first came out and it was like, god, I loved it. Yeah, that's a fantastic game. And I understand it, the instinct to automatically go to something that you know and love, that you've already seen.

To me what's really fun is the notion of what new stuff are we gonna see, what new stories can we tell?
 

Tim Gerdes

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The problem with there being no backstory to Snoke is this: The character was placed into an already existing saga with no explanation of who he was or where he came from, or if he related to anyone we'd seen in the previous 6 episodes. After Episode 7, there was a lot of speculation as to who he was and an implicit promise to the moviegoer that we'd find out. Snoke died with no explanation of who he was, and that's a failure.
While I wasn't invested enough in Snoke to care about his backstory, to me this is more of a failing of The Force Awakens than The Last Jedi. The First Order rising from the ashes of the Empire makes sense, but Snoke is clearly both knowledgable in the Force and powerful. As we know from the previous films there is always one Sith master and one apprentice.

It seems like Snoke would have been on Palpatine's radar and vying for a position as apprentice in opposition to Vader. If anything we should have seen him working against Vader. It seems implausible that someone so powerful in the Dark Side would just show up out of no where in the relatively short span of time between ROTJ and TFA.
 

Tino

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Sorry but as I’ve said before any perceived failure of TLJ rests solely on the shoulders on Rian Johnson. He had feee reign. No excuses. Trying to blame TFA for his problems is a cop out in my opinion. Sorry.
 
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Tim Gerdes

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Sorry but as I’ve said before any perceived failure of TLJ rests solely on the shoulders on Rian Johnson. He had feee reign. No excuses. Trying to blame TFA for his problems is a cop out in my opinion. Sorry.
Snoke existed as a character in The Force Awakens, and my criticisms about his random introduction as a thinly veiled Palpatine retread, much like the countless other retreads JJ Abrams introduced in TFA—apply to his appearance there.

I don't think Johnson can be held accountable for not cleaning up the mess that Abrams created. YMMV.
 
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Brandon Conway

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I enjoyed it quite a bit. Like others I wasn't too enamored with the casino subplot, but I do get what it was arguing; I just thought it was handled in a somewhat sloppy manner.

I adored the myth smashing and the nerd theory undermining. That was exactly what the series needed - to thwart the idea of force qualifying bloodlines and the old ways being the answer. Everything related to that was wonderful.

All the rest was good, though some of the gags didn't hit for me, but those were in the minority. The movie really shines in the last 45 minutes or so when everyone is all back among the First Order and Resistance ships.

Best audience moment of the night was when that silence permeated after the lightspeed jump attack. Was perfect silence for about 3-4 seconds, then some little kid let's out a big "Woooooaaaaaah!" The audience erupted in applause in response, acknowledging that *THAT* is what Star Wars is all about.

8/10
 

TravisR

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I can't believe that no one else has cited the biggest problem with TLJ yet and that is that R2-D2 didn't get to do anything cool again. The scene with Luke and him was pretty good (it was the one time that Luke got to really be happy and smile) but I wanted to see R2 save the day or have some comedic relief with him and C-3PO. Even TFA managed to get a joke in with C-3PO when R2 woke up.

OK, maybe in the grand scheme of things that isn't a big problem but I want more Artoo dammit! :)
 
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Jake Lipson

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Playing Leia's message back was cool.

But, I get your point.

Now that Abrams is able to use R2-D2 awake, I expect he'll get something more along the lines of what you are talking about in Episode IX.
 

Tino

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Snoke existed as a character in The Force Awakens, and my criticisms about his random introduction as a thinly veiled Palpatine retread, much like the countless other retreads JJ Abrams introduced in TFA—apply to his appearance there.

I don't think Johnson can be held accountable for not cleaning up the mess that Abrams created. YMMV.
Well agree to disagree. Rian could have expanded and flesh out that character any way he wished. He chose not to. That’s his weakness,not JJ’s.
 

Jake Lipson

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Johnson simply didn't see Snoke's origin as necessary to the story he wanted to tell.

Again, there are all kinds of things they can do to tell this story to the diehards -- a book, a comic, an animated show (perhaps whatever the successor to Rebels will be.) I think Johnson made the right story choice for his film.

As I mentioned, if Lucasfilm hires an author to write a Snoke book, you can also have Luke, Leia, and Han in reacting as Snoke ensnares Ben. That gives the novel format an advantage for something like this because it can be set between trilogies without having to worry about actors' ages.
 
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