Paramount+ Star Trek: Discovery - Official Thread (3 Viewers)

[MishaLauenstein]

I think most people here know what the status of Captain Pike will be according to the original series.

Until recently, Discovery had a character called “Airiam” who was basically a brain installed in a robot. Why then is the status of Pike going to be so primitive? We even did better way back in the 20th century with Stephen Hawking.

I was expecting the Time Crystal to age him 1000 years to explain why he couldn't simply be Airiamated.

 

[Yee-Ming]

That broke me.

Christopher Pike is the finest man to command the Enterprise.

This season has taken a fifty year old rejected pilot, and a wraparound story that an overworked, underfunded producer slapped together to recycle that footage and buy himself time, and imbued it with an additional layer of vitality and pathos, and bridged two worlds that seemed incompatible just a year ago. It was a risky, brave and bold choice, and it is paying off in big ways.

I haven’t had this much fun, or felt this engaged, watching a new season of television since Twin Peaks: The Return. This feels like a once in a lifetime experience. Discovery’s season three will hopefully be just as good, but it won’t be this. This is a gift.

Fully agree on all counts (bar the Twin Peaks reference: I haven't watched that). It also explains (by retcon) why Spock was so prepared to mutiny and risk the death penalty for Pike in the original Cage episode: no doubt Spock will learn of Pike's sacrifice, and in return he felt that Pike shouldn't have to suffer because of that sacrifice, and that returning Pike to Talos IV to live out his days was the right thing to do -- a more just reward, so to speak.

 

[Sam Favate]

Some comments from Anson Mount on the latest episode:

Having a good handle on canon myself, I think, I was very appreciative on how the writers handled it. It was so smart, primarily because I think it turns Pike’s third act [in “The Menagerie”] more of a triumph then a tragedy by making it an active choice on his part.

The one thing I knew about Pike is that he probably had good parents and he definely had good mentors. He’s emotionally intelligent enough and idealistic enough to know that when you say you’re going to do something, you do that thing. You live up to your word.

Lots more here:
http://trekcore.com/blog/2019/04/anson-mount-discusses-pikes-big-star-trek-discovery-decision/

Also, I noticed Pike was wearing a different uniform in the flashforward he saw. Perhaps this was his Fleet Commander's uniform?

 

[Hanson]

With two episodes left, I have to ask - what's the deal with casting Rebecca Romijn to play Number One for a walk on cameo in a single episode?

 

[TonyD]

I also wondered about the ship that landed on the Vulcan facility that Michael and her parents were building the Red Angel suit. It’s supposed to be Klingon from what we know. I thought it sort of looked like a Romulan Bird of Prey.

I just watched this ep and I immediately said “oh wow Romulans”
I’m no super expert on Trek like many in here but didn’t the Romulus and the Klingons have similar ships.

One question on that ep, since Georgiou put the device there to steal the data why didn’t she just remove it or break it before or instead of just fighting Leland?

 

[Nelson Au]

Tony, I guess by blowing up the facility from orbit, they turned off the device. Good question though as I thought she did turn it off, but Leland turned it back on and she had to fight him and didn’t have a chance to turn it back off.

 

[Nelson Au]

This is a very heavy era of Star Trek I feel. It’s getting more into deep consequences. The days of exploration and tales veiled as allegory are not as clear. Or it’s not as clear to me.

Star Trek in its history usually had more humble stakes when Kirk was on a mission and the Enterprise and the crew were in peril and Kirk did what it took to save them. That’s a serious stake in itself. Rarely was Earth or the entire universe being threatened. Lazarus was a threat to the quadrant. City on the Edge of Forever had consequences for Earth history, so that was a big stake. The Doomsday Machine threatened several star systems. And many more examples throughout the different series.

I’ve been ruminating a lot this season especially on the journey of Captain Pike. We now know the AI Control is trying to wipe out all sentient life forms, so it’s serious stakes. This episode, In the Valley of Shadows is very deep and at first I didn’t like where it went. In my earlier post, I had not had time to let it sink in. I was reacting to how seemingly contrived it seemed to show Pike’s fate as something he could have avoided. I didn’t like that because it seems like if it’s your fate, it’s your fate, the destiny you can’t avoid. ( Many years of watching The Menagerie engrains this destiny. So we know it happens, but I felt it happens, not because something in the past said it may not happen if you turn left instead. ) In just one viewing, I reacting that way. But in thinking about what Tenavik tells Pike, that many have tried to take a crystal, but are unwilling to pay the price. Once Pike sees his future and as horrible it is and we see his reaction, he still upholds his morals and principles. He has to hold up the ideals of the Federation and Starfleet and do what he must to get the Time Crystal in order to save the universe. He really didn’t have a choice. You’re finished either way. As Josh said, that was a heart breaking scene. Anson Mount played the flash forward and reaction scenes so well! ( but did we have to see him melting? It does add to the horror of what awaits Pike.). Maybe now he will be aware and maybe he will avoid the delta radiation.

Bo Yeon Kim & Erika Lippoldt are young and new writers and they’ve managed to write some really well done episodes. The whole Pike story in this episode was what has stuck with me. They seem to really know, or their boss really knows canon and Star Trek. The other stuff with Tyler and L’Rell and Michael and Spock was cool and edge of the seat viewing, but it was more about giving us more background and information on Control amd sets up next week’s episode. The ending does give us a hint at possibly why we’ve never seen a ship like Discovery later.

I can’t stop thinking that from this day forward, Pike will have a heavy load on his mind and I’m sure this changes him. He’s paid a heavy price for the Time Crystal, he had to do that. Outwardly, I would assume he’ll go about this duties like he’s always done.

 

[Josh Dial]

Also, I noticed Pike was wearing a different uniform in the flashforward he saw. Perhaps this was his Fleet Commander's uniform?

He was there for an inspection of the cadet ship, right? Am I remembering correctly? If so, it would make sense for him to be wearing a more dressy uniform.

 

[joshEH]

^ Yup, one of the "old, Class-J starships" (to quote from "The Menagerie").

 

[Josh Steinberg]

With two episodes left, I have to ask - what's the deal with casting Rebecca Romijn to play Number One for a walk on cameo in a single episode?

I think two things:

-They were showing respect to the canon, and to Majel Barrett’s history with the franchise, by casting a prominent actor in that role. Even if we don’t see much of the character, putting a known actor in there serves as an audience shorthand to say “this character is important and has a rich background and full life, even if we don’t see it.”

-From the preview for next week, it looks like we’ll be seeing the Enterprise again, so I’m guessing we’ll see her again too.

 

[BobO'Link]

I think two things:

-They were showing respect to the canon, and to Majel Barrett’s history with the franchise, by casting a prominent actor in that role. Even if we don’t see much of the character, putting a known actor in there serves as an audience shorthand to say “this character is important and has a rich background and full life, even if we don’t see it.”

-From the preview for next week, it looks like we’ll be seeing the Enterprise again, so I’m guessing we’ll see her again too.

While I've not seen the episode my reaction would be "Oh... stunt casting to get more viewers" with such a "walk on" type appearance of a well-known non-Trek actor, and probably the same reaction with a known Trek actor doing a short walk on. I'd never in a thousand years get the "shorthand" you indicate.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

I'd never in a thousand years get the "shorthand" you indicate.

I don't think it's something we're always conscious of as viewers, but it can have an impact. This kind of casting happens in movies all the time - think of how often you might see a movie using a bigger actor than was necessary for a smaller part. It's to give that part some gravity.

 

[BobO'Link]

I don't think it's something we're always conscious of as viewers, but it can have an impact. This kind of casting happens in movies all the time - think of how often you might see a movie using a bigger actor than was necessary for a smaller part. It's to give that part some gravity.

Then I'm a different kind of viewer. I'm normally annoyed with such casting if the actor doesn't "fit" the part well. Most of the time I get a "stunt casting" vibe. I also don't pay attention to how "big" an actor may be, just how well they do their job. For me, any "gravity" from a role comes from its importance to the story, how it's written, and how well it's acted, not the status of who's cast.

 

[Nelson Au]

Spoiler: This image could be a spoiler regarding the casting discussion

 

[Jason_V]

I can’t stop thinking that from this day forward, Pike will have a heavy load on his mind and I’m sure this changes him. He’s paid a heavy price for the Time Crystal, he had to do that. Outwardly, I would assume he’ll go about this duties like he’s always done.

And here's the thing: my question is who he will share this secret with. At the end of the episode, he clearly told L'Rell, Ash and Michael what happened wasn't their business. If Spock does what he does in The Menagerie to "make up" for Pike's sacrifice here, then Pike has to tell at least Spock. Does he tell everyone afterward? Or just Spock and maybe Number One? Keeping this to himself until the accident happens would eat away at him day after day, undoubtedly affecting his command.

Pike has always been one of those characters I took a liking to and wished I could see more of. Before this season, we had The Cage and The Menagerie, along with a small handful of comics. That's it. I always imagined the kind of captain he was based on what we knew about him. This is him. Exactly what I imagined...the best qualities of Starfleet. I wish we would have the chance to know him personally outside of command.

The one thing I have to say negatively about this episode is this: I WISH I didn't have to work so hard to understand the Klingons. The only time I typically have problems understanding speech are with heavy accents...and the Discovery Klingons.

I could take or leave the conversation between Hugh and Reno. I know what the producers and writers are doing and a part of me is very thankful. But another part just goes...yeeeesh.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

And here's the thing: my question is who he will share this secret with.

I don’t think he ever will. I mean, it’s possible he could tell someone, but why? I would figure that would only make it harder on him, to have people look at him differently or try to help him fix something that can’t be fixed.

 

[Nelson Au]

This is the part of the episode that I had mixed feelings about. We know Pike will be on a small J class vessel and an accident will occur. If we never had this Discovery episode, we would not know anything about what happens in Pike’s life between The Cage and The Menagerie. So part of me feels it was an interesting thing they did by infilling this segment of his life, and adding this additional burden on Pike. But at the same time, I’d like to think this was an event that happens, regardless of the events on Boreth. It is cool it shows what kind of officer he is. He is the best of what Starfleet represents.

I agree also that Pike will keep this to himself. I’ll re-view the episode as I wanted to re-hear the dialogue he has with Tyler and L’Rell afterwards.

 

[Josh Dial]

I don’t think he ever will. I mean, it’s possible he could tell someone, but why? I would figure that would only make it harder on him, to have people look at him differently or try to help him fix something that can’t be fixed.

I think he'll tell Spock. This will fuel Spock risking everything to bring Pike to Talos IV.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Guess we’ll find out in the too-short future.

Only two episodes left. Man, I don’t want this to end.

Pike’s accident is still ten years in the future, so, can we throw a bucket of money at Anson Mount and tell him to cancel his plans for a while? If you would have asked me a year ago if I’d want a show with Pike, Spock and Number One on the Enterprise, I would have injured myself from the epic eye roll that would have induced. I’m the guy that rails against prequels!

Now, I’d pay good money to see it.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

(But honorable mention to Bruce Greenwood for his fantastic Kelvin-Pike. Alex Kurtzman is 2/2 in his portrayals of the character. I like the subtle variations between Greenwood and Mount’s portrayals. They both feel to me like they share the same essence but seem just different enough reflecting the difference in circumstance.)