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Sony has lost over $3 billion on the PS3 (1 Viewer)

Paul Kemp

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How much of that $3bn do you think Sony have clawed back in software sales through Blu Ray DVD and (in particular) Games?

These are both high profit margin assets of the PS3 - Sony's policy on selling the PS3 hardware at a loss is subsidised because they can claw much of it back on software.

However, make no mistake. If Blu-Ray had been developed by any corporation other than Sony, it - and perhaps with it the PS3 - would have long since perished.
 

Paul Kemp

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Either I've lost my mind or a post I made in this thread was deleted?

[Edit]

It's appeared again? Must be a problem with my connection!
 

Edwin-S

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SONY stubbed their toe big time by having such a weak starting line up of games. They focussed so much on the Blu-ray side of things that they forgot that the majority of purchasers of the system would be playing games first and watching movies second.

I like the system well enough but it is also a perfect demonstration of why "convergence" boxes may not necessarily be the holy grail that CE companies think they are. As a movie player, I have noted some weaknesses. The lack of analog outs being one of the biggest ones. I also think that it is not a very good DVD player, but it excels at playing BDs.

As a game box, the biggest weaknesses are the speed of the BD drive and the lack of ability to upscale 720p game material to 1080p.
One of the biggest complaints I have read from gamers is the need to install a lot of the games from disc to hard drive. Coming from a PC background, installing games to the hard drive doesn't bother me much, but it seems to drive a lot of console gamers bonkers. The fact is, though, is that eventually loading to a hard drive is going to become mandatory on all of these consoles, except the WII. Graphics and sound are becoming more and more complex and I just cannot see console games continuing to run from the DVD/BD drives indefinitely.

In some ways, SONY was way ahead of the curve with this system and in others way behind. It remains to be seen if their gamble pays off. I still think that it eventually will, but they will still lose money for a while yet.

On another note, I wonder if their money troubles were partly responsible for their decision to sell their cell processor division to Toshiba. I wonder whether their cel processor technology is being used in Toshiba's attempt to resurrect a shitty red laser based HD system, also known as super DVD.

SONY may end up regretting selling that technology to Toshiba.
 

Paul Kemp

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I shall assume you are taking into account the cost of research & development that went into creating Blu Ray in the first place? Or that many Blu Ray discs bought are not used with a PS3?

The alternative would be to imply that the cost of authorship, production and distribution for Blu Ray is higher than the value at which the discs retail.

I am not sure which of the two you are suggesting (if either)?
 

Paul Kemp

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Has it been sold to Toshiba? I was under the impression it has been licensed, and that Toshiba had a hand in the research & development of the Cell processor. I was also under the impression that Toshiba were using the Cell in their latest generation of flat screen televisions to power their EPG.
 

Edwin-S

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This one I'm not sure of. I could have sworn that I read that SONY sold their cell processor division to Toshiba; however, maybe I'm mistaken. It is possible that it was only a licence agreement. I'd have to to go back and look in to it.
 

Paul Kemp

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A 1080 television will support a 720p input and utilise its own scalers. Your VP50 would also scale 720p to 1080 if that is what you required. You could argue that the PS3 ought to do this all 'in house', but this would purely be in the interests of inclination rather than in order to provide a better image on the screen.

I am confused by your observations on 480p output on the PS3 - why would you select this option in the first place if you had a HD set?
 

Romier S

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That's too bad. You're both missing out on some excellent titles. Both on retail shelves and in the downloadable space via the PSN store. Super Stardust HD, Everyday Shooter, PixelJunk Monsters, and the recent release of Gran Turismo 5 Prologue each are well worth the download. With Socom Confrontation and especially Wipeout HD coming it's going to get more interesting. Games liked Ratchet and Clank Future, Unreal Tournament 3 (with support for user created mods), Uncharted, Metal Gear Solid 4, Devil May Cry 4 and more I've been doing quite a bit of gaming on my PS3 of late.
 

Paul Kemp

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This must be an American thing - I'm not aware of any European products that will display 1080i but not 720p (in fact I am pretty sure legislation exists which makes this illegal! - God bless the European Union).
 

Douglas Monce

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Well actually I'm suggesting both. I seriously doubt that the companies involved in blu-ray have recouped their R&D investment at this point.

When you have titles that sell in the neighborhood of 3000 copies, that doesn't indicate to me that they are moving enough units to be in the black yet for production, packaging, distribution and marketing for individual titles. Yes some titles have sold well such as the Pirates films, but that is the exception to the rule at this point.

My estimation has nothing whatever to do with the PS3, just that not enough actual movies on blu-ray are selling well enough yet to be in the black. At this point I think that for the most part blu-ray is still a loss leader for the major studios. With the idea that they will eventually sell enough units to be profitable.

Doug
 

Douglas Monce

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Gran Turismo looks interesting, and i would probably pick it up if I had a wheel and pedal setup. I'm interested in Uncharted: Drake's Fortune, but the price is a little steep for me at the moment. I'm waiting to find a used copy.

Beyond that I haven't seen any games that really interest me much other than the two I own which is The Godfather and Call of Duty 3. I'm much more interested in role playing and or mystery games than shooters. (with the exception of WW2 shooters)

Now if they would put our a really intriguing first person mystery with enormous detail and interesting characters that you have to talk to to solve it, I would be all over that.

Doug
 

Paul Kemp

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My guess would be largely the same, but this is the product of intuition rather than any informed analysis. Neither of us have presented any objective statistics either way, but my inclination is broadly the same as your own - although you might well be surprized at how little the transition to Blu Ray production has cost some studios, who already had the necessary gear 'in house'.
 

Douglas Monce

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I think you are probably right in some cases. However the totality of getting a product into the stores suggests to me that many of these titles are not making money, and this was all but stated by one of the studio reps sometime last year, though I can't remember which who or in relation to what titles. Shipping alone may cost more than a title that sells 3000 copies might make.

You are right that it is a guess, but a moderately educated guess.

Doug
 

CptGreedle

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I am sure Sony was fully expecting the PS3 to lose money. Afterall, the 360 didn't make any money till this year (though I am not sure about the repair costs...)
Still, it is probably worth it (or will be) since the PS3 greatly helped Sony win the format war with Blu-ray.
 

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