Should "Classic" Films be released on 4K/UHD? (1 Viewer)

[Robert Harris]

It's very interesting to hear somebody actually state that a UHD costs four times more than a blu-ray to produce, as I haven't seen any other publishing company state in dollars and cents what the production costs and profit margins are for discs. Some companies, which specialise in scanning films for making video masters, state what their charges are for 2K and 4K scans. But scanning film is only part of the cost of making a UHD. Mastering and authoring costs, as well as printing and shipping costs, also factor in. Companies obviously have no interest in displaying what their costs are and what their profit margins are. They want to earn as much as possible for their business and customers want to pay as little as possible.

If one compares Arrow Video's recently released blu-rays with their recently released UHD counterparts, it looks like their recommended retail price is double for the UHD version. Criterion's The Red Shoes has a SRP on their website at $39.95 for the DVD and the blu-ray editions, and $49.95 for the UHD. I would guess that they are counting on high volumes of sales to offset the production increases.

Warner Archive Collection probably have low profit margins, as they usually don't provide much in the way of supplements, which are much more expensive to produce, compared with their in-house scanning and restoration productions costs. I remember George Feltenstein saying that they would only release a blu-ray of Captain Blood, if The Sea Hawk sold enough copies to justify it. And it obviously didn't.

A huge proportion of extra costs for 4k is clean-up. While certain entities continually abuse the term “restoration,” they don’t pay for it in time, investment, sweat or blood.

Warner Archive does precisely that.

In real numbers, digital clean-up, x an auto-pass, can easily run $25,000 to $250,000 for 4k.

The reality of the digital clean-up area of restoration is simple.

Perform work oriented toward a 2k final, and regardless of how much work is performed, once problems of a certain size are dealt with, smaller bits come to the fore. Go back. Clean more. Ditto.

Attempt that with 4 times the resolution, things snowball.

Desire a “pristine” image?

Good luck!

It pains me when films of a certain age are prepared, restored on Blu-ray, and need good numbers out the door to move more important titles forward in the process - and they’re beautifully reviewed.

And a certain proportion of prospective buyers make note on line that they’ll wait for the sale.

Discs are incredibly inexpensive these days, and have the capability of mimicking a 35 or 70mm print in one’s home theater.

Think $20-40.

Back in the glory days of film collecting, desire a nice dye transfer print of N x NW or The Searchers?

Get ready to put off the next car purchase.

Easily $4,000 - $5,000. In 16mm.

Point being, these little silver discs that we love, are extremely expensive to produce Properly.

Support the infrastructure.

 

[titch]

A huge proportion of extra costs for 4k is clean-up. While certain entities continually abuse the term “restoration,” they don’t pay for it in time, investment, sweat or blood.
Discs are incredibly inexpensive these days, and have the capability of mimicking a 35 or 70mm print in one’s home theater.
Support the infrastructure.

Very well put. We, who have been purchasing physical media for more than 30 years, remember well how expensive our hobby was back then. I was a poor student and a huge chunk of my student loan went to Ken Crane's Laserdisc in California. I worked as a bell-hop at a hotel to supplement my student loan and to be able to buy these desirable discs. The 1994 My Fair Lady laserdisc box set had a retail price of $129.98. Although it did include a frame from a 70 mm print, a gold CD of the soundtrack and a book of Cecil Beaton's costume designs, I don't think it comes close in value for money to the gorgeous 4K UHD released last year, which has a list price of $25.99 (currently available from online sellers for less than $20). Watching My Fair Lady in my living room, in much better quality than the faded 70 mm print I saw a few years ago at our National Film Theatre, feels quite unreal. Today, collectors are very spoilt for choice and collecting discs costs far less now in real terms.

 

[OliverK]

Very well put. We, who have been purchasing physical media for more than 30 years, remember well how expensive our hobby was back then. I was a poor student and a huge chunk of my student loan went to Ken Crane's Laserdisc in California. I worked as a bell-hop at a hotel to supplement my student loan and to be able to buy these desirable discs. The 1994 My Fair Lady laserdisc box set had a retail price of $129.98. Although it did include a frame from a 70 mm print, a gold CD of the soundtrack and a book of Cecil Beaton's costume designs, I don't think it comes close in value for money to the gorgeous 4K UHD released last year, which has a list price of $25.99 (currently available from online sellers for less than $20). Watching My Fair Lady in my living room, in much better quality than the faded 70 mm print I saw a few years ago at our National Film Theatre, feels quite unreal. Today, collectors are very spoilt for choice and collecting discs costs far less now in real terms.

Very true about the costs - my first semi-HD version of Lawrence of Arabia I got on a Muse Hi-Vision laserdisc that I think when released in Japan exclusively cost 29800 Yen or more than 260$. Of course when you imported it the price would be closer to 50% more than that...

And I was not collecting back then but apparently VHS tapes used to cost 80 or 90$ per movie in the 80s! Compare that to getting Spartacus or My Fair Lady in cinema grade quality and better for less than 20$ and one cannot help but be extremely grateful about what we have today!

 

[titch]

Very true about the costs - my first semi-HD version of Lawrence of Arabia I got on a Muse Hi-Vision laserdisc that I think when released in Japan exclusively cost 29800 Yen or more than 260$. Of course when you imported it the price would be closer to 50% more than that...

And I was not collecting back then but apparently VHS tapes use to cost 80 or 90$ per movie in the 80ies! Compare that to getting Spartacus or My Fair Lady in cinema grade quality and better for less than 20$ and one cannot help but be extremely grateful about what we have today!

People were complaining about paying $110 for the 4K UHD of Lawrence Of Arabia, bundled together with five other 4K UHD movies and a book, in 2020. I paid $55 for a blu-ray Collector's box of Lawrence Of Arabia, with a book and a frame from a 70 mm print, in 2013. Not to mention $125 for the four disc CAV Criterion laserdisc in 1989.....

 

[OliverK]

People were complaining about paying $110 for the 4K UHD of Lawrence Of Arabia, bundled together with five other 4K UHD movies and a book, in 2020. I paid $55 for a blu-ray Collector's box of Lawrence Of Arabia, with a book and a frame from a 70 mm print, in 2013. Not to mention $125 for the four disc CAV Criterion laserdisc in 1989.....

I am a bit ashamed to say that I have all of those, too. You can never have enough versions of Lawrence of Arabia - must be something like 10 versions in my case...

 

[Rick Thompson]

I remember buying the VHS of a film called Tribute, which starred Jack Lemmon in an Oscar-nominated performance. $79.95 plus tax -- and I was glad to get it. (That was in the heyday of rental.) Still glad I did, because it hasn't ever been released on any other format. I think the first sell-through priced ($29.95) film was Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan. (BTW I dubbed my copy of Tribute over to DVD. Shortly thereafter my S-VHS machine went to that great electronics store in the sky.)

 

[Douglas R]

Very true about the costs - my first semi-HD version of Lawrence of Arabia I got on a Muse Hi-Vision laserdisc that I think when released in Japan exclusively cost 29800 Yen or more than 260$. Of course when you imported it the price would be closer to 50% more than that...

And I was not collecting back then but apparently VHS tapes used to cost 80 or 90$ per movie in the 80s! Compare that to getting Spartacus or My Fair Lady in cinema grade quality and better for less than 20$ and one cannot help but be extremely grateful about what we have today!

In the mid 1980s I remember buying a VHS tape of EL CID for £30 which equates to £100 today, about $135. It was 4x3 pan and scan, mono sound, no overture etc. Crazy! Yet I was thrilled to have my own personal copy of the film which in years before would have seemed impossible.

 

[OliverK]

In the mid 1980s I remember buying a VHS tape of EL CID for £30 which equates to £100 today, about $135. It was 4x3 pan and scan, mono sound, no overture etc. Crazy! Yet I was thrilled to have my own personal copy of the film which in years before would have seemed impossible.

When I got seriously into watching movies on a bigger screen I was so disappointed even with DVDs that I tried to catch a lot more movies in movie theaters as even DVDs were so bad compared to seeing movies in theaters.

Now what we get on really good Blu-ray or even UHD discs is usually better than what can be seen in repertory screenings even when blown up to the same size screen - it is a miracle really to get that kind of quality today for so little money compared to what was before.