Scott Atwell Star Trek Discussion thread (Series and Films) (3 Viewers)

[Jeff Flugel]

I can see how she can be a bit of a cliche, but there are people who feel that way. I was surprised and relieved that she didn't become a romantic interest for Kirk. I liked that he was relating to her strictly as a professional, and not trying to put the moves on her too much.

I was disappointed with how little regard, or even any discussion, was made over the effect to the timeline that removing Gillian from the 20th century would have. After all, that was the main plot point of "Tomorrow Is Yesterday" with Captain Christopher.

I'd think I'd say that she wasn't strictly a romantic interest for Kirk...but there was a definite vibe there. I don't think Kirk went on a pizza date with Gillian only to get information on the whales from her. There is also an implied flirtatious future possibility in her line, "See you around the galaxy" when she hugs him at the end. That's my take on it, anyway.

But your point is well taken, whatever romance element that's there is secondary, and her character is integral to the story; she's not just another "babe of the week" for Kirk to bed.

 

[ScottRE]

To be fair, Kirk’s rep as a lady killer is overblown. The Bad Robot films make him out to be a horndog who can’t keep it in his pants ("helooooo ladies!"). TV series Kirk had tons of charm was movie star good looks – and he used that to his advantage to get out of scrapes or get information. But the number of woman he conclusively slept with was low. Drusilla, Miramanee, Deela and Odonna were the only four (unless I missed any going by memory). Miramanee was his actual wife when he lost his memory, so she was true love. Deela he slept with to gain her trust and cause a rift between her and Rael– but I’m sure he enjoyed it. Drusilla: that was a good time, absolutely. Odonna made no sense, honestly, but at that point, the series was falling apart.

He kissed a ton of women. Some while under some influence, other times to get out of the scrape of the week. But really, Will Riker was a bigger stud than Kirk.

The movies made more out of it than the series. Carol Marcus was a serious fling that produced David and her comments made it like he was Maverick from Top Gun. Bones makes a comment in Star Trek VI when he kisses Martia, but they’re both using each other (and since Kirk does do a lot of lip wrestling, Bones’ comment is on target).

As far as Gillian, Kirk is absolutely charming her to get what he needs. But, if you watch them, she’s not interested in romantically. She’s charmed and a little flirty, but her concern is for George and Gracie. When they part, watch Kirk’s face. He knows he’s being snubbed. “I’ll find you” is a classic “let’s just be friends” line. She was about to walk away without even a goodbye until he stopped her. Her kiss on the cheek is the final nail. I actually find that to be one of the more funny moments in the film. Kirk is standing there wondering how his charm failed.

It’s a rep and like most reps, it’s not really earned. It’s fun, but it’s not accurate.

 

[Jack P]

Odonna made no sense but the bigger problem is the episode made no sense. Never mind the "duplicate Enterprise" being built on such a crowded planet, the real problem with that episode is this. If Gideon has such an overpopulation problem then the simplest solution to their problem would be to ask the Federation to resettle its surplus population to a less inhabited planet! But if this all-too-obvious solution had been employed then we'd have no overly preaching tract about the population explosion delivered with all the subtlety of a sledgehammer.

But getting back to Kirk, we also as far as his reputation goes have to take into account all the "past flings/relationships" that are alluded to. I seriously doubt that he was totally chaste with Areel Shaw, Ruth, Janet Wallace (who was supposed to be the Carol character in the very earliest draft of Wrath Of Khan), Janice Lester etc.

Ironically the one notable weakness of "City" as far as its tragedy for Kirk is concerned is that his relationship with Edith Keeler is not fully reciprocated. He's fallen in love with her, but she's not yet at that stage with him. (That's one reason why I found "All Our Yesterdays" far more effective in the doomed-time travel romance department).

 

[ScottRE]

That’s a very good point about past relationships. Ruth in Shore Leave, though, seemed to be true love. Kirk was incredibly happy to see her, more so than if she were just a fling. Of those you mention, only Janice Lester feels to me to be more like a fling to Kirk (Lester obviously took it more seriously). Janet Wallace and Areel Shaw were also old girlfriends and I still feel there’s a line between bouncing from relationship to relationship and banging a space babe of the week. That makes Kirk a little more shallow than they probably intended. It seems as if Kirk was really meant to be more career driven, knowing command leaves no room for a permanent relationship. He paid the price for his by having a personally lonely existence. Some of this was lost as they wrote and Shatner portrayed him as more cocksure, but I think this was what they had in mind for him.

The other James T – Jim West – was more like what people think Kirk to be.

 

[Nelson Au]

Miss Piper seemed smitten by Kirk, no doubt Helen Johansson had some colorful stories.

Perhaps Kirk had some dates with Marlena Prime after the episode ended too.

And there’s Helen Noel too. Maybe later they saw each other a little. Perhaps they intended Helen Johansson to be Noel.

These are all implied incidents of course.

 

[Sam Favate]

I happen to love Star Trek IV. I think it is quintessentially Star Trek with its positive message and critique of humanity. It's also Nimoy's most personal statement in all of Star Trek IMO. The Voyage Home and The Wrath of Khan are the best Trek films by a mile.

 

[AndyMcKinney]

I liked that he was relating to her strictly as a professional, and not trying to put the moves on her too much.

Which is even more admirable given that she was quite obviously braless in that white sweater.

 

[Gary Seven]

The other James T – Jim West – was more like what people think Kirk to be.

Jim West was a western James Bond. Nothing more, nothing less.

 

[Blimpoy06]

Which is even more admirable given that she was quite obviously braless in that white sweater.

 

[ScottRE]

Which is even more admirable given that she was quite obviously braless in that white sweater.

That’s why he’s an Admiral....

 

[KPmusmag]

I watched a Voyager episode last night, S4E7, "Scientific Method". I hadn't seen it in years, and I found it very suspenseful and creepy. Good episode. I did wonder what they did with the alien who presumably was still in the brig after the others had gone.

 

[Nelson Au]

That was a fun episode. Seeing Janeway pushed to the edge was part of the fun. It was reminiscent of a TNG episode where aliens in another realm were experimenting with the crew.

 

[KPmusmag]

That was a fun episode. Seeing Janeway pushed to the edge was part of the fun. It was reminiscent of a TNG episode where aliens in another realm were experimenting with the crew.

Do you happen to remember which TNG episode that was?

 

[ScottRE]

Do you happen to remember which TNG episode that was?

Schisms

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schisms_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)

It’s a great one, just wished they had a follow up

 

[KPmusmag]

Schisms

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schisms_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)

It’s a great one, just wished they had a follow up

Thank you! On my list for today.

 

[Jason_V]

Schisms

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schisms_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)

It’s a great one, just wished they had a follow up

There is at least one comic book follow-up story, IIRC.

 

[ScottRE]

There is at least one comic book follow-up story, IIRC.

Well, I usually mean within the live action continuity. But thanks. I remember DC comics did a follow up to Conspiracy

 

[Nelson Au]

Thanks Scott, I didn’t remember the title myself.

 

[Jason_V]

Well, I usually mean within the live action continuity. But thanks. I remember DC comics did a follow up to Conspiracy

Granted and understood. It doesn't shock me these aliens never got a live action follow up. No one was particularly thrilled with the way the episode turned out on the production side.

 

[Sam Favate]

Every self-respecting Star Trek fan needs to see this: (from Marina Sirtis' Twitter feed)