RIAA: SACD leads in Shipments, DVDA in Awareness

Discussion in 'Music' started by Lee Scoggins, Apr 29, 2004.

  1. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Producer

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  2. Charles Gurganus

    Charles Gurganus Supporting Actor

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    My guess on the numbers for the phone survey, which started the DVD-A outsells SACD by 5 times rucus, is that number could very easily just be CONFUSED participants. ROFL Just the fact the phrase DVD is used (and certainly is more well know than SACD but I am NOT talking about DVD-A) would be enought for consumers to give a yes (without even knowing the difference between DVD-A and DVD-V).
     
  3. Jeff Ulmer

    Jeff Ulmer Producer

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    Units shipped means diddly squat, units sold is what is relevant. The survey does not indicate whether hybrids are counted as SACDs or not. If they do, then the data is unfairly biased, as there is no way to determine what percentage of buyers are even aware that hybrids are SACD, let alone are buying them specifically because they are SACD.

    I suppose I fall into the "who cares" category when it comes to survey manipulation. What matters is whether, in five year's time, either high rez format is still viable, or if it has been superceded.

    I do find it amusing how folks around here continue to wage this pissing contest between formats.
     
  4. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

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    Jeez, why doesn't the RIAA simply ask each retailer (brick & mortar and internet categories) to send in their sales numbers for each format??? The discs all have individual bar codes/UPC numbers so they HAVE to know how many of each disc has been sold. Unless the retailer uses stone tablets to keep track of their finances, can't they simply push a few keys on their computer to discover and send this information?

    LJ
     
  5. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Producer

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    Fair enough but I guess I am intrigued by what the DVDA Council is willing to do to raise awareness...I think the evidence now points to quite a bit of hanky panky with the numbers.
     
  6. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Producer

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    Here are some comments I posted elsewhere:

    ***********************************************

    The HFR story is really interesting. It shows about a 4:1 lead in dollar volume over DVDA based on actual shipment data audited by Price Waterhouse. Compare this with a 5:1 lead in the Peter Hart survey from what people actually said.

    I think the only conclusion you can reach is that DVDA shipments are flat, SACD is growing, but DVDA has higher awareness. The higher awareness rings true due to the major consumer move and marketing programs around DVD.

    I also suspect that loyal audiophiles are relatively small in number but buy SACDs by the boatload. That would fit lower awareness (smaller number of purchasers) and higher dollar volume (more units shipped per household or purchaser).
     
  7. Brian-W

    Brian-W Screenwriter

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    It's no more biased than knowing how many of the DVD-A sales were due to the AC-3 compatible track that plays on every DVD player.
     
  8. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Producer

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    Brian,

    You could also ask good questions about the phone survey techniques...did Hart use a mix of lower and upper income types? If so, the Super Audio awareness would be enhanced by wealthy audiophiles who read The Absolute Sound and Stereophile and Postive Feedback, all of which have had steady stories promoting and praising SACD software and hardware.



    I follow your logic but the size of the error might be different given the different volumes involved on each format.
     
  9. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

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    Brian, I'm not picking on you specifically but I keep seeing this concept brought up in discussions like this and it isn't really a good analogy to an sacd hybrid.

    The ONLY reason a person buys a dvd-audio is.......because it is a dvd-audio.

    And no, we don't know what part of the disc they actually bought the disc for: hi-res stereo; hi-res surround; or lossy DD/DTS surround. But we DO know it wasn't because the buyer thought it was a CD. And this last part is what really screws up the **sacd** format's sales predictions.

    LJ
     
  10. MatS

    MatS Screenwriter

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    my conclusion without even looking at this 'story' in any detail

    both formats represent a minisule marketshare and will continue to do so

    most people who said they were buying dvd audio were most likely refering to music dvds because the term dvd audio has the word 'dvd' in it

    of course SACD outshiped dvda, I'm sure that shipments of DSOTM and Rolling Stones catalog SACDs alone topped all dvda shipments combined in 03 as well as all other SACD titles combined.

    numbers can say anything you want them to
     
  11. Kevin C Brown

    Kevin C Brown Producer

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    Lance, I don't understand why people with std DVD players wouldn't buy a DVD-A disc for the DD tracks? That's the whole point of having the DVD-V tracks on them: to be backwards compatible with "normal" DVD players. Same-o with SACD hybrids, and CD *or* regular DVD players.

    I agree with Brian-W, that it becomes murky for both sides when you really think about it.
     
  12. LanceJ

    LanceJ Producer

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    Kevin: when I said what you quoted, I did mean that a certain percentage of dvd-audio buyers are buying them for the DD/DTS tracks because they can't (or won't) buy a dedicated dvd-audio player.

    Yuck--I hate discussions involving statistics! They can very quickly become very confusing and cause temporary brain meltage. [​IMG]

    LJ
     
  13. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    I read the link Lee (thanks) but based on these numbers the sum total is approximately the same as vinyl and dwarfed by CD. If this is some sort of barometer then it would suggest the doldrums and a ho-hum acceptance by consumers, no?
     
  14. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Producer

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    We never disputed this. In fact we pointed it out in the other thread that the survey was at odds with the Stereophile story about vinyl outselling SACD and DVDA combined. [​IMG]

    The growth is the big story and the addition of another revenue stream in hirez is still important to the labels. As long as they keep the titles coming, I think we consumers will be happy and enjoy higher quality music sources.
     
  15. Justin Lane

    Justin Lane Cinematographer

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    But the industry wants to get away from CD, due to copy protection/royalty issues. If you want to equate buying a DVD-A disc for the DD/DTS track as buying a SACD disc for the CD layer that's fine. There is one fundamental difference however...Buying a DVD-A (whatever track it is purchased for) disc most definintely represents a shift away from CD as a delivery format, and this is what the industry is looking for in their current state of paranoia.

    J
     
  16. MatS

    MatS Screenwriter

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    any comparison of dvda or SACD shipments to vinyl is silly as vinyl with most record distributors is a non returnable item hence retailers are more inclined to pass on that format when available
     
  17. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Producer

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    However, there is a loyal vinyl fan base so many retailers show brisk sales. Acoustic Sounds is one retailer that sells vinyl in quantity so I would not dismiss it altogether. Also, my Tower has a lot of vinyl for sale, both used and new.
     
  18. Lee Scoggins

    Lee Scoggins Producer

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    I don't see that. Buying a DVD just represents another form of buying music. I don't think you can extrapolate that to say the same buyer does not want to also purchase CDs. DVDs and CDs function the same as music delivery systems in terms of playback...think convenience, storage, etc.

    Copy protection is a moot point as both hirez formats offer it for the higher resolution. I think the industry is looking for something that is a premium product that people will buy. I can see value in the video extras, the surround, and the faster sampling rate for different types of audiences.

    The only two things that need improving is marketing and title selection. [​IMG]
     
  19. Will_B

    Will_B Producer

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    If the phone survey questioners had asked people if they'd bought "Super Audio CDs", rather than saying "SACDs", then SACD would have had a tremendous result from everyone who felt their music purchases were super.
     
  20. Chu Gai

    Chu Gai Lead Actor

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    Heck, since when is a little over a million of all forms of vinyl or hi-res brisk? My eighty-six year old mother is brisk for that matter.
    You think it needs better marketing? When Sony has yet to convincingly demonstrate a 2 channel superiority over conventional CD? What performers that currently have the capability of going gold, platinum, double platinum on CD are going to want to see their stuff released on either hi-res format? Hell, they'll never get a royalty then. I just don't see the flocking of the masses and you need the masses to drive it anywhere.
     

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