RAINTREE COUNTY on Blu? (1 Viewer)

[Robert Harris]

thank you. getting back to the topic, Raintree County is not a very good film, and I made the mistake of watching Bluebeard by the same director, and he has a minutes long hunting scene where real animals are being shot and killed, he was a sadist freak and to me his films can turn to dust.

We should be focusing on finding the missing footage of Cleopatra.

There’s no time like the present. I would begin the search in Rome.

 

[Josh Steinberg]

Not sure what a search for missing footage from Cleopatra has to do with a thread dedicated to expressing a desire to see Raintree County on Blu-ray...

 

[Robert Crawford]

Not sure what a search for missing footage from Cleopatra has to do with a thread dedicated to expressing a desire to see Raintree County on Blu-ray...

It doesn't so let's move on from that attempted diversion.

 

[OliverK]

Again, I guess I'm just puzzled why "did what they could" with Giant is "okay" but a damned nice looking Raintree County (to my eyes on an HDTV broadcast) is out of the question. With "not having it at all" is obviously the only alternative, sadly I end up pretty disgruntled.

Ed, this is very simple:

What we have of Giant is unfortunately rather close to the best we can expect it to look.
What we have of Raintree County is far removed from what it could look like, everything is a compromise:

- instead of the multichannel soundtrack there is at best stereo sound or is it even mono?
- it is the short general release version instead of the long roadshow version that currently only seems to exist in sub-VHS quality
- it has an overall picture quality that is in some respects better than DVD but in others worse
- it has the wrong aspect ratio compared to what's on the negative

Raintree County could look and sound as good as Ben-Hur or rather even better as there are less or possibly no jarring matte paintings and small ship models in it.

I hope that Warner at some point will at least give us a decent representation of the 35mm roadshow version with 4-track magnetic sound and of course the short version as taken from a 65mm IP and the original multichannel (was it 4 or 6?) soundmix.

As far as not having it at all is concerned there are ways to have it just not on Blu-ray and fit for a Warner Blu-ray release it ain't in its current form.

 

[Ed Lachmann]

Everyone does things differently, I suppose. I re-bought The Quiet Man, Johnny Guitar and Journey to the Center of the Earth (not cheap) when better elements became available from the same companies. Hows about a standard DVD from WB Archives...just anything. Hoping that WB procrastination doesn't eventually leave Raintree elements in the same boat as those of The Alamo. And, hoping that sub-VHS quality is NOT all we'll ever get...sorta like Greed, whose absence in any other form than sub-VHS quality is a goddamned embarrassment. That's Warners for you.

 

[Robin9]

. . . Hows about a standard DVD from WB Archives...just anything. Hoping that WB procrastination doesn't eventually leave Raintree elements in the same boat as those of The Alamo.

Yes, absolutely. I fully understand that Warner don't want to release what they have on Blu-ray disc because it wouldn't meet their very high standards. Anyone can understand that. But I don't understand why they don't release it on DVD. Many, many of their Warner Archive DVDs come from less than optimum elements.

 

[OliverK]

Everyone does things differently, I suppose. I re-bought The Quiet Man, Johnny Guitar and Journey to the Center of the Earth (not cheap) when better elements became available from the same companies. Hows about a standard DVD from WB Archives...just anything. Hoping that WB procrastination doesn't eventually leave Raintree elements in the same boat as those of The Alamo. And, hoping that sub-VHS quality is NOT all we'll ever get...sorta like Greed, whose absence in any other form than sub-VHS quality is a goddamned embarrassment. That's Warners for you.

Greed is a very sad story that already started with the theatrical release. After such a long wait I hope that Warner will give us something very special when they release it on Blu-ray.

 

[OliverK]

Yes, absolutely. I fully understand that Warner don't want to release what they have on Blu-ray disc because it wouldn't meet their very high standards. Anyone can understand that. But I don't understand why they don't release it on DVD. Many, many of their Warner Archive DVDs come from less than optimum elements.

Agreed, they could go with a DVD for people who want a disc and a download / streaming purchase for those who want something that is better than DVD quality but not quite there for a Blu-ray release.

 

[Andrew Budgell]

Agreed here, too. If there are no plans for a full blown restoration, I'd be very pleased with a digital download of the theatrical cut of the film that's currently streaming on FilmStruck.

 

[Andrew Budgell]

A wonderful conversation with the indomitable Eva Marie Saint.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/eva-ma...do-and-waterfront-1527604220?tesla=y&mod=e2tw

 

[DVBRD]

If I were George Feltenstein, I probably would release some sort of "compromise" 2-disc WAC DVD with the first disc being the general release version in 16:9 and the second disc being the roadshow version in the old 4:3 master, much like what Twilight Time did with the "Hawaii" Blu-Ray. That won't happen, of course.

Besides, can you name me one WB film that's available on digital right now that is NOT missing any footage from a previous release? Remember, this is why "Sea Wolf" was OOP for 20 years.

If MGM still owned the rights to "Raintree County," that film would be on DVD and Blu right now. Maybe not in the way we wanted it, but still.

 

[Andrew Budgell]

TCM will air Raintree County on Saturday, September 22, 2018 at 2pm ET. Fingers crossed that they show what PBS stations aired earlier this year and FilmStruck is currently streaming.

 

[battlebeast]

I asked the Warner Archive on FB whether we'd get more Elizabeth from the Archive, and for an update on 'Raintree County,' This was their response:





Here's hoping 'Raintree County' WILL be released on Blu-ray and not part of the Archive.

Cross your fingers, everyone!

NOT part of the Archive? If they release it on Blu, it'll be pressed. I don't care how they release it, I'd just like to see it released so I can see what all the hype is about.

 

[battlebeast]

What are the issues with Raintree County anyway? is the film elements? missing footage? legalities?

 

[OliverK]

What are the issues with Raintree County anyway? is the film elements? missing footage? legalities?

film elements, audio elements, missing footage, a long runtime, shot in large format and resulting from that very high costs to make this look and sound really good on Blu-ray

Best way to currently watch it is probably the short version on filmstruck if you got a good enough internet connection. Be warned that there is probably still an issue with combing that personally I found to be extremely distracting last time I checked.

If nothing else is being done Warner should just do scans of 35mm prints of the roadshow version and release that. They will have to access these anyhow in order to have a record of the cut scenes so why not release it like that until something better is feasible. Certainly a lot less costly than accessing the original 65mm and soundtrack elements plus we get the roadshow version that is the preferred version anyhow, at least I would definitely want those additional scenes in there.

 

[OliverK]

If I were George Feltenstein, I probably would release some sort of "compromise" 2-disc WAC DVD with the first disc being the general release version in 16:9 and the second disc being the roadshow version in the old 4:3 master, much like what Twilight Time did with the "Hawaii" Blu-Ray. That won't happen, of course.

The old master is on filmstruck and I have also seen it elsewhere. It is possible you can even grab it on youtube if you like. It probably has the quality of a mediocre VHS tape if even that. In todays world I do not see any point in releasing this as it looks so horrible that it would even be appalingly bad if released on a DVD.

 

[Andrew Budgell]

NOT part of the Archive? If they release it on Blu, it'll be pressed. I don't care how they release it, I'd just like to see it released so I can see what all the hype is about.

Warren, you quoted a post of mine from seven years ago, before the WAC were even releasing Blu-rays. Of course if Raintree were ever to be released on Blu-ray now it would be through the Archive. Seven years ago that wouldn't have been the case.

 

[Nick*Z]

Raintree is a problematic release for far too many reasons to discuss completely herein but I suspect WAC's major stumbling blocks are (A) a costly restoration, (B) its notorious status as a horrendous flop, and (C) particularly in today's social climate, its incendiary subject matter (Liz plays a brutal racist with mental issues). The real reason to see Raintree in the fifties was (1) because it derived from a best-selling novel, and (2) because it was shot in MGM's ultra-wide and ultra-clear MGM Camera 65 'window of the world' process that revealed a startling amount of detail and image clarity. Those who have never seen Raintree in this format would not be adverse to viewing it now, derived from a 35mm reduction print. Only the results would be nothing like what audiences saw in '57.

WAC is all about quality. While I would sincerely champion a release of Raintree on Blu - roadshow version of course, the likelihood of this becoming a reality is slim to nil. Regrets. I do not regard it as a great film. At times, I don't even think it is a particularly good one. That said, it will have its appeal for those desperately eager to collect all of the Liz and Monty catalog in hi-def. Personally, I think that odyssey should start with a restored Blu of A Place in the Sun, The Heiress, National Velvet, The VIP's, Butterfield 8, Ivanhoe, and, A Date with Judy. Raintree, despite its elephantine costs and production values, and its epic and thought-numbing implosion at the box office is a mere blip on both actor's radar. It wasn't planned as such and mounted in the grand ole tradition of a 'Gone With the Wind' - albeit, without any of the dramatic finesse. I still think it deserves honorable mention and a hi-def release. Just be wary of the fiscal viability of such an undertaking. I'm certain WAC is!

 

[Joe Caps]

MGM did NOT release the film in 70mm, EVER.
only 35mm.

 

[RolandL]

...If nothing else is being done Warner should just do scans of 35mm prints of the roadshow version and release that...

I don't think they have the roadshow version in 35mm or any format. When it was shown on TCM many years ago, the extra scenes came from a private print that was returned to the owner.